Transcription

00:00:01.50
Neely Quinn
Welcome back to the podcast, Matt. How are you doing?

00:00:05.12
Matt
I’m doing great. Thanks for having me. Yeah, good to be back.

00:00:08.06
Neely Quinn
Yeah, for sure. What’s been going on?

00:00:10.55
Matt
Oh, not too much. ah At home in Lander, enjoying early spring and yeah, early summer.

00:00:17.59
Neely Quinn
Early summer.

00:00:20.95
Matt
The weather is a bit all over the place. You know, it was 80 degrees yesterday. It’s 50 degrees today. But ah yeah, It’s been nice, good to get out, and I have started climbing on a rope again, which has felt really nice.

00:00:33.91
Matt
um

00:00:34.14
Neely Quinn
Nice.

00:00:34.81
Matt
And despite, ah think I’ve tied in 10 days total since last October, ah and I already feel really good, so no complaints.

00:00:46.06
Neely Quinn
Oh.

00:00:51.25
Neely Quinn
Cool. Good. So your body feels good. The training you’ve been doing is obviously paying off.

00:00:57.02
Matt
Yeah, I’m sort of like pleasantly surprised at how fit I feel already, which is great. um

00:01:03.51
Neely Quinn
yeah that is great

00:01:04.25
Matt
Yeah, I like unfortunately have a minor finger tweak from a boulder I was trying that doesn’t, it it only seems to matter.

00:01:16.94
Matt
ironically, for what we’re going to talk about today on a board. So climbing outside, it feels totally fine. It’s just like a slightly sore A2 pulley in my right ring finger. It really only seems to aggravate if I’m crimping as hard as possible, like really balling the hold.

00:01:32.28
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:01:33.40
Matt
Yeah.

00:01:33.75
Neely Quinn
Which I feel like is really telling about boards, but cause I, you’re not the first person that said that to me, you know, like that ah injury is mostly aggravated on a board. So they’re intense.

00:01:44.02
Matt
Yeah, totally. i mean it makes It makes sense. Yeah, exactly. It’s like the easiest access to intensity. It didn’t really happen on a board. it There’s like a a boulder I was trying here, the crux move.

00:01:54.95
Matt
It’s like a roof and there’s just like a crimp, like less than a pad crimp in and you have like a heel choke him and you just like have to own this crimp for like three moves.

00:02:05.66
Matt
And that’s like the crux of the boulder. And I sort of had it, I could climb to that move every time and I could climb from that move. to the top most ish times. Uh, and so I was sort of like had a couple of sessions, which in hindsight was a little silly where I was just trying that move like quite a bit, trying to figure it out.

00:02:22.52
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:02:23.59
Matt
Cause I only did the move one time in five sessions. Uh,

00:02:27.16
Neely Quinn
Oh.

00:02:27.86
Matt
And i was like, oh, well, if I’m going to do this boulder, like this is obviously where I need to like improve. And then never felt anything like while I was sessioning. And then I was like, hmm, I actually went, I take i was like, oh I’ve been climbing a lot. i’m gonna And I had a ski race I was doing.

00:02:44.50
Matt
And so I like went skiing for four days and I came back and I was like, well, and now my pulley is sore. So pretty sure I know what that’s from.

00:02:49.86
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:02:51.14
Matt
But it seems to be on mend.

00:02:52.15
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And, and I, I will ask you one follow-up question about that because, you know, I talked to a lot of people who are injured and they’re like, I feel like I should learn something from this, but I didn’t really feel anything when it was happening. And so I don’t know how to move forward. Did you learn anything? Do you think you could have known to stop?

00:03:12.50
Matt
Um,

00:03:15.96
Matt
maybe yes, maybe no.

00:03:18.23
Neely Quinn
Yeah, exactly.

00:03:19.24
Matt
I definitely always try to, like, I agree with the idea of trying to learn something from an injury, but I, but also like, I do think it’s important to remember that like injuries happen when we’re doing everything right in high level sport, like, or just sport period.

00:03:31.96
Neely Quinn
Yeah, yeah.

00:03:35.71
Matt
You know, an example I gave, it was couple Super Bowls ago. It was like one 49er, like star defensive player, tore his Achilles, like full rupture, trying to run onto the field. Like he was just standing on the sideline, ready to go in for a series and just like kicks off to, you know, to run onto the field and just, foot you later there was like a disgusting clip, you know, it it was on air of just like his Achilles just fully, you can like see it snapping.

00:03:45.61
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:03:56.50
Neely Quinn
Dang.

00:03:59.66
Neely Quinn
Bull.

00:04:00.15
Matt
And you’re like, It’s the Superbowl. You really don’t think this guy was doing everything right to be like ready to go. And that that’s like the lowest impact thing he’s going to do in that game.

00:04:11.26
Matt
Right.

00:04:11.32
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:04:11.50
Matt
And you’re like, no, it happens. So I do think that’s important to keep in mind. I think if I, there’s an element of, I sort of had two sessions where I was really focused on this one move.

00:04:25.94
Matt
And I think like three quarters of the way through, the second session, I was like, I feel tired on this hold. And I kind of like gave a couple more tries, nothing crazy, did some more climbing and then was like, I’m done. I just feel kind of beat up.

00:04:41.69
Matt
Um, and so like, yes, I think I could have recognized that, but I don’t think it was like, I don’t think by the time I felt tired on the hold, there i could have like i think that it was already the damage was maybe done like it wasn’t like i i didn’t like ignore a clear warning sign to be like no i’m gonna keep going i gotta do this move or something like that and i don’t know ironically i a lot of the training i did like basically since last fall has been about not only being able to crimp harder but also being able to like do more crimping

00:04:57.14
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:05:04.79
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:05:18.65
Matt
like tolerate a higher volume of it. Um, and so you’re kind of like, well, I worked hard to be able to try more and I feel good and I’m like having good tries. So like, why am I going to stop?

00:05:30.04
Matt
Uh, so yeah, I don’t know that there’s totally like a, I think I just, it’s an intense hold. I tried it a lot. It got a little sore and, but you know, I I’ve taken no time off from climbing as a result of it. So It’s like annoying. I’d rather it wasn’t happening or like, I’d rather it wasn’t happening, but I’m not sure it’s like totally avoidable. These things happen. And I’m not like, I don’t think there was like a major error made or anything.

00:05:59.00
Neely Quinn
yeah yeah well I’m glad that you’re still climbing and even still board climbing it sounds like and which is what we’re talking about today so do you want to introduce our topic

00:06:11.54
Matt
Yeah, I thought we’d talk about board climbing again. ah we The last time it was on the show, we kind of did a an episode about board climbing, and I think we kind of focused on like…

00:06:23.16
Matt
the what of the major boards. And this i is maybe, I wanna talk a little bit of what more about how we can use them maybe. um

00:06:31.10
Neely Quinn
Yeah. hmm.

00:06:31.64
Matt
We talked a bit about that with like pitfalls and things like that. But you know one of the the things I said last time was I was talking about like, okay, well, a question I get all often is like, well, which board is the best? And I made a joke about how that’s about as wise of a question as asking a carpenter, what tool is their best tool?

00:06:51.32
Matt
Um, and so i bring that up now cause I kind of want to continue using that sort of metaphor of thinking about boards as tools here. And so I think as in talking about like more specifically how we use these tools, my thinking is that a helpful question to keep referring back to is, isn’t like how, how do I have to use the tool, but it’s more, how can we let like get out of our own way to let the tool do the work for us?

00:07:19.93
Neely Quinn
I love that.

00:07:20.06
Matt
Um,

00:07:20.70
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:07:20.79
Matt
Yeah. um but They do work. So it’s just kind of on us to to use them in the right way ah and let them do the work for us. um And so, yeah, my thinking, I kind of went through and thought about, um you know, common sort of friction points or concerns I get from people I coach. And I pulled some out and I kind of tried to come up with like as succinct as possible sort of coach answers to those. And then I figured you and I could just kind of share since we both climb on boards and have for a long time, we can sort of share our like on a personal level, like how we also navigate those issues.

00:07:59.64
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. I like that structure a lot. Cool.

00:08:03.18
Matt
Cool. um Should we just jump right into them?

00:08:04.47
Neely Quinn
So yeah. Where do you want to start?

00:08:05.98
Matt
Yeah.

00:08:06.01
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:08:06.30
Matt
All right.

00:08:06.29
Neely Quinn
Go ahead.

00:08:07.13
Matt
So first one I get a lot ah is, but the board is crowded.

00:08:15.05
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:08:15.96
Matt
Yeah. um I am willing to acknowledge as somebody who has a, like built a board of my own in my house and primarily climbing a non, like in a private non-commercial gym that I don’t have the, I understand that there is like a a capacity limit here and a point at which it’s no longer fun to, you know, work in with 40 of your best friends, uh, on a board. However, unless you’re going to, you know, make the investment to build your own, this is something we’re gonna deal with.

00:08:48.76
Matt
Um, And i do think, ironically, it’s also something that if we frame it a little differently, can be a positive. Like my sessions, when I’m by myself, are usually not as good as when I’m with other people.

00:09:06.52
Matt
um

00:09:06.65
Neely Quinn
I agree.

00:09:07.58
Matt
Yeah.

00:09:07.55
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:09:08.57
Matt
So I think that like navigating, dealing with this really just comes down to sort of like seeing a board as a shared space or a shared resource. and like respecting it is that but also just doing a better job of communicating about it.

00:09:26.04
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:09:26.91
Matt
Yeah.

00:09:27.19
Neely Quinn
So yeah. What do you see? What do you, what advice do you give to people?

00:09:33.50
Matt
Okay, so number one, and this is sort of a a slight aside here, but I think it’s worth saying is like, nobody is ever going to be mad at you for brushing a board. So do it, right? Like, it it seems silly, but it it like shows a level of respect and care, both for your own climbing and for the board. it preserves you know it keeps it cleaner longer.

00:09:56.22
Matt
makes the holds last longer. And so like, i don’t know, I think a lot of times when people are saying like, oh, the board’s crowded, that comes down to on the one hand, like not wanting to deal with the crowds and getting a climb more, but also this sort of like, well, do I really, should I be climbing there? Do I belong, so to speak?

00:10:13.88
Matt
And I think that like always brushing the holds shows that you kind of know the etiquette around using a board. So it’s just an easy way to sort of like signal that you’re doing the right things.

00:10:22.36
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:10:26.52
Matt
um So, and it has like, there’s no negative to it, right? So you as well do it.

00:10:32.70
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:10:34.01
Matt
But beyond that, I think a way I see this crop up a lot is with both problem changes. So like what problem is lit up on ah on a board and then angle changes.

00:10:46.48
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:10:47.29
Matt
So should maybe start with problem changes? Okay. If we’re talking about any of the LED boards here, so moon boards, tension boards, kilter boards, et cetera, know, they have an app.

00:10:59.42
Matt
The apps are literally designed for changing problems rapidly. So ah it doesn’t, this is one of the great things is like, you can be climbing on, you know, I can be climbing on V7 next to somebody who’s climbing on a next to somebody who’s climbing on a V2.

00:11:18.42
Matt
doesn’t matter. Um, so I think just taking time to actually learn the app and being able to like navigate finding the problems you want to climb on and light them up goes a long way here.

00:11:32.95
Matt
Uh, cause again, then you were sort of controlling your session rather than being along for the ride.

00:11:39.57
Neely Quinn
Well, and that’s assuming that the board that you’re on has the capability of having many people ah ah plugged into it.

00:11:46.62
Matt
um mean’t Yeah, I i think the in my experience of going to commercial gyms, I’ve never seen one that doesn’t.

00:11:53.21
Neely Quinn
Yeah, well, and I, yeah, it used to be that you couldn’t.

00:11:53.62
Matt
Like,

00:11:56.29
Neely Quinn
And I just don’t know if every board is set up that way.

00:11:57.06
Matt
yeah. Yeah.

00:11:59.35
Neely Quinn
But I do know that sometimes there’s a limit, which is fine, because I mean, even if there is a limit to how many people can be controlling it, you can then be aware of how to use the app, find the problem that you want and tell the person who is in control.

00:12:16.04
Matt
Right. Yeah, exactly. um but And then one of the things there, too, that’s nice to do, at least in the tension and kilter apps, I know there’s, like, an auto-disconnect feature. So you can set, like, a time that you disconnect from. And it’s if I’m by myself, i don’t turn the in you know I don’t turn that on because then I i don’t have to, like, reconnect every time.

00:12:40.12
Matt
But what it does do is let you, like, browse problems without, like, you know, lighting up the board like a Christmas tree as you just like swipe through. And then other people can, you know, you can be browsing away, looking at what you want to try, planning your next attempts, et cetera, while somebody else is, you know, doing their thing.

00:12:48.38
Neely Quinn
yes

00:12:56.89
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah, that’s good.

00:12:57.30
Matt
um And so, apps are designed for it, but I think so it it really shouldn’t be too much of an issue. like You should still be able to have the session that you’re looking for. But I think within that, one of the other things that’s really important is like take your turn.

00:13:14.23
Matt
but Don’t hide the board, but you also get a turn. And I think this this often I see this crop up in terms of letting like feeling like you have to work in and wait your turn, changing how you’d work a problem.

00:13:28.89
Matt
So like, oh, there’s five other people who want to who are gonna go and we’re kind of going in a rotation.

00:13:28.97
Neely Quinn
What do you mean?

00:13:35.35
Matt
So by the time it’s my turn, I better just try from the start because I’m you know i’m not going get another go. like Why would I work that move in isolation or something? um I think it’s important to just still be like, okay, what are what’s tactically the right way that I would work this problem?

00:13:52.02
Matt
ah you know I should be working this move in ISO? Great, do it in ISO. um And this is the part of like taking the turn. that it’s like you can pull on more than once. Don’t be a hog, you know, you don’t get five minutes, but it’s like, if you pull on you, you know, your foot pops and you’re like, cool. You reach off and pull back on and try again. Nobody’s going to be like, ah Nope.

00:14:15.22
Matt
You know, turns, turns taken kind of thing. Like, you know, so just, I think everyone can try to just bring that anxiety level down a little bit. Um, yeah.

00:14:24.41
Neely Quinn
okay can we stay there for a sec so ah is that the turn or if you hop on and you do two moves and fall off can you come back down and try again like what’s the what’s the turn

00:14:38.26
Matt
Yeah. Well, I think the bigger question is, should you try again at that point? Right.

00:14:43.93
Neely Quinn
okay coach

00:14:44.12
Matt
yeah Like one of the better thing, one of the things that’s nice about climbing with other people. And I think makes a big reason why I have a better sessions is I rest more. So I don’t know.

00:14:55.54
Matt
i don’t think there’s like an established, you know, like ground rule here of like, you know, X number of moves qual quantifies your turn. But I think like,

00:15:05.91
Neely Quinn
Well, and yeah.

00:15:07.96
Matt
But if you do enough climbing that it seems like it could be your turn, then it’s probably better for you to just rest and wait anyway. um

00:15:16.69
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:15:17.30
Matt
So I don’t know. I think try to i use some common sense there. And again, just like don’t be a hog about the board. Like it’s okay to to go do what you need to do, but then just be like, okay, yeah, other people are trying to.

00:15:33.72
Matt
um And you can talk about this. You know, this is the other thing. Like a lot of these things, like I said, come down to communication. Just be like, man, my foot popped. going to, you mind if I try again real quick? Like most people are not going to be like, no.

00:15:43.79
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:15:48.92
Matt
Right? Like that’s pretty confrontational. ah Most people aren’t going to do that. and And I, or be, I think be offended by it. And it’s just always, I think it’s always better in these kinds of situations to just like talk to each other.

00:16:02.94
Matt
It goes a long way.

00:16:03.16
Neely Quinn
Well, yeah. And I mean, that’s always been a ground rule for me is like you come to a board and if there are people there, you establish yourself, your intentions, see what the rotation looks like.

00:16:04.52
Matt
Yeah.

00:16:16.96
Neely Quinn
How long are people going to be there? What, you know, all of the things and people typically will give you good enough answers that you, you know, you understand your standing.

00:16:27.99
Matt
Yeah, totally.

00:16:31.67
Neely Quinn
But then you continually have to keep doing that. Like, are you going? No, I’m actually going rest for longer. okay I’m going to go.

00:16:38.52
Matt
Yeah, exactly. um And because, yeah, i like that’s the other thing. And this happens to me all the time, like be climbing me in a group, you know, even on these boards that aren’t like in a commercial gym, there’d be like five or six people. And, you know, during the warmup,

00:16:53.50
Matt
when you’re maybe resting less, it can it can often be like, well, you go, then I go, then he goes, then she goes, you know and then, oh, your turn again, you know because everyone’s trying to sort of get their problems in. um But then like once you’re working on problems, like people are gonna, oh, you had a big go where you fell at the end and you need more rest.

00:17:11.53
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:17:11.66
Matt
It’s like, you don’t have to like go, and it doesn’t have to be a strict rotation.

00:17:11.67
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:17:16.15
Matt
You can kind of, again, if you just talk like, oh, I’m gonna rest for a while, you go. Or, and then, hey, do you mind if I jump in? I, you know, I just took 10 minutes or whatever is like totally legit. And, and again, like the actual amount of time that you’re on the wall in a bouldering session is pretty small in comparison to the duration of the whole session. So like, there’s enough time for everyone.

00:17:40.28
Matt
You just need to communicate about it so that not every, so that everyone doesn’t feel rushed and frantic and hectic about it.

00:17:48.89
Neely Quinn
I don’t know if you’re going to talk about this much, but the intimidation factor is something that I’ve talked to clients about before, especially people who are like on the lower end of the grades and they feel really intimidated if there’s like a bunch of crushers on the board. And I would love to hear from you, like if you’ve experienced that where you and some other stronger climbers are on a board and then somebody who it isn’t, you know, who’s working lower grades comes along, like what are your thoughts about that? Because I think people would like to know.

00:18:22.94
Matt
Yeah. Well, first of all, I feel like I’m often in both camps. Um, like I, yeah, yeah.

00:18:26.71
Neely Quinn
yeah Okay. Yeah, fair.

00:18:28.41
Matt
Like I’m not, there are many, many, many, many people out there who climb so much harder than me on board. um

00:18:36.31
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:18:37.08
Matt
And i think that what I can safely say is that

00:18:45.53
Matt
the main thing that always stands out to me and I think stands out to most sort of stronger climbers is just effort.

00:18:54.01
Matt
So like, if you’re trying hard, everyone’s going to sort of be respectful of what you’re doing. um And I don’t know, I try to be respectful, period.

00:19:04.42
Matt
But what always stands out to me is like, if I see someone who’s sort of like, I don’t know, oh, this is, oh, it doesn’t even matter. It’s just X, you know, grade.

00:19:15.00
Neely Quinn
Right.

00:19:16.18
Matt
I don’t even care kind of thing. I’m like, well, yeah, maybe you don’t care. Then like, if you don’t care about your climbing, then I definitely don’t care about your climbing. Right? Like, I know that’s it.

00:19:24.89
Neely Quinn
And you’re kind of like, then why are you here?

00:19:26.68
Matt
Yeah, exactly.

00:19:26.94
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:19:27.32
Matt
Like, what are we doing then? But if you’re like, whether you’re climbing V zero or V 10, if you’re like, no, I’m trying really hard. I want to do this. Then I, it literally doesn’t matter to me if it’s V zero or V 10. I have like absolute respect for that.

00:19:41.24
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:42.74
Matt
Um,

00:19:42.94
Neely Quinn
That’s kind of what I figured, you know, you would say. And I think that it’s just really helpful for people to hear that, you know.

00:19:49.47
Matt
Yeah, and I really do believe that. And I think it’s worth saying, and I know this is a little off topic here, but that applies outside as well, I think.

00:19:57.65
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:19:57.98
Matt
like That’s just to a climbing, period.

00:19:58.22
Neely Quinn
Yep.

00:20:00.38
Matt
like um you know i Again, it it really doesn’t matter what your project is or how hard it is. If you’re going about it and taking it seriously and giving real effort, like that that’s just what I respect in climbing. And I and i think that that’s what most…

00:20:16.41
Matt
sort of stronger climbers really respect. it It really doesn’t matter if, because then, you know, yeah, we’re climbing different things or at different levels.

00:20:19.18
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:20:24.44
Matt
We all are. But if we’re all engaged in a process of really trying to push ourselves, then we’re sort of fundamentally doing the same thing.

00:20:31.80
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Right. Then there’s that camaraderie there.

00:20:34.65
Matt
Yeah, exactly.

00:20:35.67
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Okay.

00:20:36.62
Matt
But yeah, no worries.

00:20:36.77
Neely Quinn
Thanks for talking about that.

00:20:38.79
Matt
So yeah I think to sort of sum that up, I think that taps into help, helping like get the positives out of a session like this. of like being in a crew or a group, even if it’s not your crew, anything like you can share beta, you can be shown different boulders. Oh, this one’s sick. I did that one, bla blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, there’s like 200,000 boulders in the kilter board database. So like, it’s pretty nice to like, if somebody is like, Oh, this one’s amazing. You’re like, great.

00:21:05.48
Matt
Like that’s a helpful filter, you know? um And some psych, like if,

00:21:08.43
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:21:11.99
Matt
if everyone’s like, I definitely try harder when I’m with other people and that’s really helpful. So I think it’s like, if you can leverage, like speaking to each other around like, Oh, who’s trying what and working in, et cetera.

00:21:19.58
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:21:26.20
Matt
Uh, that goes a long way to like helping you get the most out of being in a, on a shared board. Um, and then it can can become a positive, you know, allowing for the fact that eventually there is too many people, but, um,

00:21:41.18
Matt
but Yeah, should talk about angle changes?

00:21:41.40
Neely Quinn
And yeah, let’s talk about angle changes.

00:21:44.50
Matt
Okay.

00:21:44.57
Neely Quinn
Cause I think this is a big one cause it’s kind of a pain and it takes some time to change the angle, you know?

00:21:47.83
Matt
Yeah.

00:21:51.06
Matt
Yeah, so I think this really depends on the ease of adjustment, right? Like the boards we have that I climb on that are adjustable are on a winch and chains. It’s okay to change the angle like once or maybe twice in a session, but you’re certainly not doing it for like each person’s try.

00:22:08.95
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:22:09.69
Matt
kind of thing But I’ve also climbed in gyms that have literally you just hit a button and it hydraulically goes to a specific angle and takes 15 seconds like total.

00:22:23.80
Matt
And in which case, like again, I think as long as you communicate about it, then it’s it’s probably okay to be like, hey, do you mind if I try this problem at 50? I know we’re climbing at 40, but can I change the board to 50 for a second and then we’ll put it back to, I’ll put it back to 40?

00:22:39.59
Matt
It’s like, I don’t know, personally, I’ve had people ask me that and I’m like, yeah, go for it.

00:22:39.74
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:22:44.53
Matt
um I don’t care. Like I’m sitting here resting. It doesn’t matter to me if the board’s at 40 or 50, you you know So the importance of having a conversation about angle goes down as the ease of adjustment goes up.

00:22:59.77
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that’s really interesting to hear you say that because I’ve kiltered on those kinds of adjustable boards a lot of times where it’s a button and I’ve never considered changing the angle in the middle of a session.

00:23:14.65
Matt
Yeah. I mean, it’s, there’s some inertia to it, right?

00:23:15.00
Neely Quinn
But but you saying that, yeah, it’s like it is really much easier than I’m thinking it is.

00:23:17.14
Matt
Yeah.

00:23:21.78
Neely Quinn
So.

00:23:22.20
Matt
Yeah, totally. like and And a lot of times, I think that, again, like this idea of inertia around the angle the board’s at is often, it’s a real thing. like

00:23:33.53
Matt
A lot of times, like if you show up to a session and the board is at, let’s just say it’s at 40, and you want to climb at 50, And there’s some people on it. A lot of times the people who are climbing out on 40 are climbing on it at 40 because it was at 40 when they got there or somebody else who was finishing their session had it at 40.

00:23:49.71
Neely Quinn
Hmm. Hmm.

00:23:53.18
Matt
And maybe that person had it at 40 because somebody else before them had it at 40. Like, it’s not always a super deliberate choice. And so sometimes, but like I’ve been in, when I was in Seattle recently, ah climbing on a TV2 there and and talking people, we were like climbing it.

00:24:09.82
Matt
think I think it was at 50. And I was like, hey, do it anyone care if we put this to 45? People are like, yeah, I’d actually really prefer that. you’re like cool, there’s six of us climbing here and everyone actually would rather the angle change, but because nobody was saying anything, we were all still climbing at 50.

00:24:20.15
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:24:24.73
Matt
And then you’re like, oh, cool.

00:24:24.90
Neely Quinn
Right. Yeah.

00:24:25.85
Matt
Yeah, we can change it. So again, I think communication goes along by there.

00:24:29.66
Neely Quinn
Yeah, for sure.

00:24:30.15
Matt
But not all boards, right, are that easily adjustable. And so I think here’s the other here’s my other advice around angle changes. First first things first. Like,

00:24:41.62
Matt
there’s value in climbing at different angles. So like, it’s okay if you were like, oh, I was planning at climbing at 55 today, but I’m actually climbing at 45.

00:24:52.75
Matt
That’s not the end of the world. Like it’s not going to dramatically alter the quality of your training. Like it’s fine. um And so what I advise a lot of my clients to do and I do myself, you can create, again, in the apps, you can create folders or circuits, like lists of problems.

00:25:10.87
Matt
And I always have, i have two lists for every angle.

00:25:15.06
Neely Quinn
Do you,

00:25:15.26
Matt
I have problems to try and then projects. So it’ll be like, try at 45, try at 50, and then projects 40, projects 45. So I kind of have a rough plan for, oh, cool. I guess we’re climbing at 45 today. Like, well, these were my projects at 45, even if it’s been six sessions since I climbed at 45.

00:25:38.36
Matt
Or, oh, these were other boulders I thought were cool to try at 45.

00:25:38.65
Neely Quinn
do

00:25:42.20
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Do you have those lists of try at 45 because you tried them at 40 and you want to see how it is at a harder angle?

00:25:51.16
Matt
Maybe.

00:25:51.54
Neely Quinn
Like, well, how do you make that list?

00:25:52.95
Matt
ah it’s more like if I see somebody else climb on problem, I think looks cool.

00:25:57.90
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:25:57.94
Matt
Or I, you know, I’m on Instagram or one of my clients climbs a boulder and I’m like, wow, that looked really cool. I just try to like, i mean, we all have our phones on us all the time anyway.

00:26:08.27
Matt
I’ll be like, I’ll just open the app and be like, let me throw that in the folder because otherwise I’m going to forget about it, right?

00:26:15.07
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:26:15.38
Matt
Like there’s just too many of them. I’m not going to be like, oh, yeah, for sure this one kind of thing. But it’s, again, it’s just a nice way to filter and not just be like, well, shit, i’ve I was hoping to climb at 50 today. Now we’re climbing at 40.

00:26:31.54
Matt
i’t I have no idea what to try.

00:26:33.56
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:26:34.52
Matt
right I’m starting from scratch, just like, oh, what do I do? It certainly makes that like being flexible and sharing the board and being at different angles easier if you’re like oh, I have a plan.

00:26:46.23
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.

00:26:47.06
Matt
Yeah.

00:26:47.19
Neely Quinn
You’re prepared. Totally.

00:26:48.36
Matt
Yeah.

00:26:49.50
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:26:49.59
Matt
Um, I’d say you can also climb on more than one angle per session. We kind of, you know, cover this. So it’s like, if you’re climbing at 50 and it’s, you know, going, going great, whatever. And then somebody is like, Hey, I’d really like to try this other problem at 40.

00:27:02.74
Matt
Even if your board’s not that adjustable or like easily adjustable, you can be like, cool. Yeah. Let me give this like two more tries or something, but I’m, I’m cool to, to change it. Like that’s, it’s okay. There’s nothing it says it’s like, no, today is this angle, not, and only this angle.

00:27:19.03
Matt
Um,

00:27:19.13
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:27:19.83
Matt
And so, and again, like it’s fun to mix it up and there’s value in that for Eddie, but so.

00:27:24.54
Neely Quinn
Got it. Yeah. good point. Okay. Is that what you wanted to say about the board being crowded and all that?

00:27:32.47
Matt
Yep.

00:27:33.69
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:27:33.82
Matt
Yeah. You have anything to add there? Okay.

00:27:35.93
Neely Quinn
No, I think you covered everything.

00:27:38.01
Matt
All right.

00:27:39.48
Neely Quinn
um Okay. So next is what

00:27:42.97
Matt
I think the next one I get a lot is, is this boulder too hard or too easy? Like sort of concerns around, am i am i working on boulders that are the right ah intensity for me? um And I think that most of the time that I hear this, it’s really a it’s kind of like a stand-in question for this feeling of like, well, I can either do the boulder quickly, everything I try, I can either do it quickly or I feel like I can’t do it at all, right?

00:28:15.83
Matt
um I think that this usually, as we talked about last time, like grades are all over the place on boards. And so I think that that’s not, we gotta like,

00:28:30.04
Matt
look at this question from outside of the suspend some amount of our concern over grades when asked answering this question right um i so if we go back to like why we’re having a board session it’s probably to get a strength and power stimulus right like if you’re just like oh i’m just climbing boulders on the board And so you’re going get that as long as you’re trying hard, you’re going to get that stimulus.

00:28:54.46
Matt
So it really doesn’t matter if you’re trying hard at a, on a V4 or V8, like there are definitely, you know, easier graded boulders that give me more challenge than harder graded ones.

00:28:58.58
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:29:06.90
Matt
I, in a session on a board recently, my friend, Tony, we both were, This was like, as I was still kind of more dealing with the my finger, we were climbing it on a TV two at 40 and we were both climbing on V sixes.

00:29:19.86
Matt
And he was also dealing with the slight finger tweak. And we were kind of striking out. We kept playing like, ah, that one feels hard. I can’t crimp party like that. Like right now, or, or just like, I i don’t feel that snappy today. I can’t do it.

00:29:31.86
Matt
And I think he was, he was one who was like, well, let’s just, let’s see what V sevens feel like. And we just had better luck. We found, yeah, it was like, and then we started doing them.

00:29:41.94
Matt
Right. And I know that that’s like not normally the direction it goes maybe, but I think it kind of illustrates the point that like we can, we can get stuck in this idea of like, well, every V seven is harder than every V six in this database.

00:29:52.56
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:29:54.36
Matt
But when you, when you filter that through your own strengths and weaknesses and movement style and hold style preferences, that’s just not true. So it’s like okay to just broaden that scope and focus more on, hey, what, the there are these holes lit up in front of me, what challenge is that giving me sort of irregardless of the grid?

00:30:16.45
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. It’s good permission for people to go outside of there. Cause a lot of times people are like, i don’t, I don’t deserve to even look at these problems yet.

00:30:27.06
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:30:28.31
Matt
Totally. But like you, well, two answers to that again is like, I think you’ll be surprised at how often you can find boulders, like even like two or three grades harder that actually feel easier than maybe the ones you feel stuck on.

00:30:42.74
Matt
And also ah you’re not gonna ever climb the harder grades if you never try them.

00:30:49.78
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.

00:30:50.52
Matt
Right. And so like, if you try to, if you try to climb every V6 in the kilter board database, you’re never gonna win. Like you’re it’s impossible. They’re going up at a rate that you can’t consume them. So like, you’re never gonna get to a point where you’re like no, I’ve done them all. I can definitely move on to V7 or something like that.

00:31:08.25
Matt
Cause by the time you show back up, there’ll be a hundred new ones or whatever. um

00:31:12.15
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:31:13.08
Matt
So, um but two I know that’s ah that’s like, I think that makes it sound a little easier said than done. It’s like, oh yeah, just like try harder things, try you know try different things, whatever. But there’s still like a lot of, you’re still stuck with the problem of there’s 200,000 boulders to choose from. Like, oh, what do I try? And is it too hard or is it too easy?

00:31:34.14
Matt
Um, and so I think trying to make that question like a little less binary is helpful. And so I try to also evaluate the problems I’m choosing through like different lenses.

00:31:45.37
Matt
So i’ll kind of be like two that I use a lot or or just hold type. So like, oh, is this one crimps? Is it pinches, slopers, you know, et cetera. You know, and and often it’s a mix, but you can be like, you know, if you’re swiping through a tension board problem, you’re like, oh, this one has a bunch of of the you know bigger black plastic holds it’s probably not as crimpy as the next one you hit it’s like oh it’s only the tiny wooden ones that are lit up you’re like well okay that’s like helpful for determining challenge beyond just well which grade is it um and so if you can go back to like well what are you trying to work on i spent a lot of my winter like trying to get better again at crimping so

00:32:31.29
Matt
if a V5 that was super crimpy was like, oh, this is feeling pretty hard. I should do this. And then the V8 that was like smashing and compressing between pinches felt pretty easy.

00:32:43.68
Matt
It’s like, well, one of those is giving me a better stimulus than the other for what I’m trying to work on.

00:32:47.48
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:32:48.66
Matt
And then you’re like not as hung up on the the great idea. um

00:32:52.48
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:32:53.37
Matt
And I think it can be really dramatic. I watched a friend of mine who’s very strong on crimps like Easily flash a V11 on the TB2 the other day and then spend the rest of the session like working and struggling and doing some, not doing others, V8s and V9s.

00:33:11.54
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:33:12.50
Matt
Right.

00:33:12.54
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:33:12.86
Matt
And it’s like, and we were joking. He was like, I think I should try this V11. were all like, I’ll, I’ll bet large sums of money right now that you’re going to flash. Like, there’s no way you’re going fall off this boulder.

00:33:23.61
Matt
Like, I can, I know you, I can see the holds. I know what they feel like you’re going to be fine. And it looked casual for him, but like, and it would not feel casual to me, but he would, if he just sought out those problems, he wouldn’t be having as good a session as the ones he was working on.

00:33:38.42
Neely Quinn
Got it.

00:33:39.29
Matt
Yeah. In the same year, you can apply movement style sort of same way. You know, are you trying to be practice being jumpy and explosive then well tic tacking between small holds isn’t going to do that or like, are you trying to work on shoulder repositions small box climbing or, you know, we can list things forever here but.

00:33:59.54
Matt
um When you apply these lenses, I think it can, it can help you explain further why things, certain things feel too hard or too easy or whatever. And it just makes making the choices around what you’re trying and, or why you can feel like you can do one easily and not do another one more sort of intentional.

00:34:20.34
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I liked all of that. Very helpful. And you the next thing you were going to talk about is feeling plateaued on a board.

00:34:35.26
Matt
Yeah. So this is stemming from that same kind of idea of like, oh, I can either, ah either can just flash it or do it in a couple of tries or it feels impossible kind of feeling.

00:34:47.35
Matt
Um, I think that’s where it comes from. I know it’s like when I feel that way, that’s usually like where what’s happening in my climbing. Um, and I think the answer here is just to broaden what you’re trying and introduce more variety.

00:35:01.82
Matt
Um, so

00:35:05.46
Matt
change the angle, change the grades you’re trying. Like if you’re only trying V6s at 40, see what V6 at 45 or 50 feels like, or see what V4 to V7 feels like at those grades.

00:35:21.02
Matt
Like you’re gonna be exposed to different styles of movement, even on the same board, right? And different, just different problems. And it’ll help sort of change the feeling stuck part of it.

00:35:36.18
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Just giving yourself different different stimuli. Yeah, that makes sense.

00:35:42.84
Matt
I think another client part mine calls it like refreshing the database. You know, like if you’re like, oh I’ve been climbing it. This is sort of the grade I operate at. And I’ve been climbing a lot at 45.

00:35:55.93
Matt
Then by moving to a different angle, you’re like, well, you got a whole new crop of boulders to, to try.

00:36:00.31
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:36:01.09
Matt
And you’re not, you don’t fall back into the trap of like, okay, well, I should probably try this one again, kind of thing.

00:36:08.12
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And you had made a good point on your outline here about only focusing on benchmarks or classics, which are typically like, you know, solid for the grade or hard for the grade.

00:36:14.36
Matt
Yeah.

00:36:21.13
Matt
Well, and there’s a limited number of them.

00:36:23.53
Neely Quinn
Uh-huh.

00:36:23.58
Matt
And so that that also reduces the variety. And so I think I like playing this game too. Like I’d like to do, you know, when I still come more on a moon board, I wanted, you know, on the 2016 moon board I was like trying to do all the classics. I think I did a all about one that were V six or below.

00:36:44.60
Matt
um And I don’t think I’ll ever do the one that was the the one remaining V six. But, and now on the TV too, I’m like, oh yeah, I’m enjoying trying to take a lot of the classics.

00:36:56.09
Matt
Like it’s a reasonable filter, whether they’re hard for the grade solid for the grade, or whatever there’s it’s a reasonable mark of at least quality of the problem.

00:37:06.90
Matt
And like, Why not start there? you know But if I think you can all carry that too far sometimes. And I’ve had people like clients and athletes who are like, I just can’t make any progress on the board anymore.

00:37:23.67
Matt
you know I’ve got these three more V5 benchmarks I need to do and I just can’t do them. You’re like, well, are you actually not making progress in your climbing and your strength and power? Or are you just not making progress on these three boulders that maybe are exposing something you’re bad at and are hard for you.

00:37:41.02
Matt
And it’s not, don’t try them, but it’s maybe don’t only try them. Um,

00:37:47.16
Neely Quinn
Well, and one thing I’ll add to that is i think that asking for help is it really valuable. Like I have a friend who is, and Seth, my husband is like really good at watching people climb and then giving advice on movement changes, very subtle and And my other friend Shannon is like that too.

00:38:12.09
Neely Quinn
And so like, I’ll think that I’m stuck on a problem and then they will watch me and they’ll do it for me in the way that I need to change things. And that alone has like unlocked things for me.

00:38:25.72
Neely Quinn
And so I think it can be really valuable to just like pull somebody aside who you know is good at this and ask for help.

00:38:31.95
Matt
Yeah. External feedback, I think is always great.

00:38:35.77
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:38:36.47
Matt
Right. Like as long as you’re asking for it, I guess. um But there’s value in it. Right.

00:38:40.61
Neely Quinn
it’s Right.

00:38:40.95
Matt
um

00:38:40.97
Neely Quinn
Not always great.

00:38:42.07
Matt
Yeah. But I think my point, I think with the benchmarks and the classics is like,

00:38:50.10
Matt
just be willing to broaden. Like if that filter’s not serving, like having just the only classics, only benchmarks filter on in the app, isn’t helping you have a better session, then turn it off.

00:39:03.97
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:39:04.06
Matt
Like it’s it’s like very silly to, like, especially, okay, let’s just hypothetically say you spent the like 20 grand, right?

00:39:08.06
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:39:15.21
Matt
To put one of these boards in your garage. part of what you’re paying for is the database of all these problems. So if you’re then like, cool, I don’t know, like the 3% of them that are then benchmarks and classics, you’re like, I’m only going to use those.

00:39:30.79
Matt
Like, why would you not use 97% of the database that you’re paying for?

00:39:31.26
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:35.70
Matt
Like, it just doesn’t make sense.

00:39:35.93
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:39:36.98
Matt
So I think it’s like, it doesn’t mean you can’t come back to them in the future. ah But like I had, have done all the,

00:39:47.51
Matt
um There might be more that have been added. I haven’t looked, but at one point I had done all the V6 classics on the mirror TV to at 45 degrees, except for one.

00:39:58.26
Matt
And I tried it every single session that I had on a, on a mirrored TV to at least like once, usually two to three goes for like three months before I did it.

00:40:10.81
Matt
And, you know, i was sort of like, i don’t want to spend my whole session on this. I know what to do. I just haven’t been able to do it yet. And then they’d go, I did it. Yeah, it felt good. I did it. I was psyched, but it was like, obviously during that time, I also got to climb bunch of other boulders. I wasn’t just like, no, this one is the project.

00:40:31.22
Neely Quinn
Yeah, right. Yeah, that makes sense.

00:40:34.50
Matt
Yeah.

00:40:35.70
Neely Quinn
Okay, ah what was next?

00:40:39.14
Matt
Uh, should I project or send a lot of boulders? And so I think this comes down to like, well, how do you use the the tool? Right? Like there’s on a lot of these boards, you know, there’s V zero to V 15 or, you know, or whatever V 13, wherever you there’s different top ends and different ones. But, um, so like, how do we use it?

00:41:00.69
Matt
And I, I spent, this is something like I coach quite a bit. And I think my answer is both.

00:41:07.64
Matt
Um,

00:41:08.15
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:41:09.59
Matt
I think what you really want to do is avoid the extremes. You don’t only want to project boulders. You don’t only want to send a lot of them. So the goal should always be to have a mix between sending regularly and also being willing to invest multiple sessions to do so.

00:41:27.61
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Well, and projecting can mean a different things to different people.

00:41:32.28
Matt
Totally.

00:41:32.82
Neely Quinn
Like you could project a boulder for five tries in the same session, or you could project it over like what you did two months.

00:41:41.43
Matt
Yeah. So I don’t think there’s a perfect balance there. Like I can’t give you like a percentage that I think is optimal or anything like that. And I think the main reason is it just varies a lot based on well, which boulders did you choose to try today? Or which, how do you feel in a certain session? What angle is the board at, right? There’s too many variables to like really lock in what’s perfect.

00:42:09.08
Matt
But I think this idea of avoiding the extremes is important. So what I say to the athletes I’m coaching is I’ll be like, don’t, when we talk again in a month, like when we have our next call, You shouldn’t be able to be like, well, so I projected this boulder this month.

00:42:24.44
Matt
That’s what I did in my board sessions.

00:42:24.81
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:42:26.52
Matt
And you also shouldn’t be like, well, I didn’t try anything more than one session. Like those would be extremes and you want to avoid that. And so I think it’s it’s really good to aim to have both as part of each session. So like a new and old rule works really well here. Like I try to try at least one new problem per session that never touched before. It’s usually more than one.

00:42:47.90
Matt
um And I try to try at least one problem per session that I’ve tried before that’s like saved in my project list. And there you go. that You’re already sort of guaranteed to have a little bit of both. um You also have to meet yourself where you’re at each session. Sometimes you feel really good. Sometimes you don’t.

00:43:08.65
Matt
It’s also not sort of black and white there. Like sometimes I feel good in certain ways and bad in others. i’m like, oh, I feel pretty snappy today. But my you know i can’t crimp you know my right hand feels tired i can’t like lock off this small crimp quite as well or oh my left shoulder feels tired or you know insert whatever here and you know it’s not always a along the lines of your strengths and weaknesses like there are times i go in i’m like oh my fingers feel really good today but like i just don’t have any like snap like explosive power i don’t know i don’t know why you know

00:43:40.86
Matt
Some amalgamation of everything else I’ve been doing in my climbing has me feeling tired in that way. And I think it just makes to adjust it makes sense to kind of adjust as you go.

00:43:50.71
Neely Quinn
So I have a question about personality types because you your answer is, should I project or send a lot of boulders? You think it’s both.

00:44:02.58
Neely Quinn
What if there’s just a type of person who ah like really doesn’t like projecting, law especially long-term, or really only loves projecting long-term? like what do you what How do you assess that client by client based on their personality and goals?

00:44:22.01
Matt
I guess, are you asking for a case of why each is important or how we go about making sure that both are present?

00:44:29.69
Neely Quinn
know how how you make the decision of because I have a feeling that maybe you’ve gotten pushback from people like no I don’t want to do both

00:44:38.94
Matt
Yeah. Well, i just, I, I personally, I just believe fully that there’s like, we want to have both because we’re getting with, if you’re not willing to put more than one session into a boulder, you’re not.

00:44:52.47
Matt
When you, when you work a boulder in a session, you have declining energy on that problem. And with each go, you’re increasing your knowledge and understanding of those moves. And those have to if like those have to meet at a high enough level where you have enough energy left and a high enough understanding that it meets the demands of the boulders to do it in a session.

00:45:14.17
Matt
And so quite often what happens is by the time you’ve gained enough understanding, you don’t have enough energy left, but then you can come back the next session and do it quick. You’re like, oh,

00:45:26.90
Matt
Well, I still have that understanding. I I’ve learned how to do these moves, but now I’m fresh and I can execute them better. And sometimes that results in like ah ah an immediate send other times it results in just like, oh, I’ve taken more steps towards sending now.

00:45:41.66
Matt
So I think that it’s like, that’s just an essential part of like, if you’re unwilling to do that, you’re not ever going to be climbing anywhere near what you’re capable of and, and and not going to get as good of a training stimulus as a result. Um,

00:45:55.58
Matt
But then conversely, if you only ever do that on, you know, a couple olders kind of thing, then you’re not really getting a ton of movement variety.

00:46:05.94
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:46:06.10
Matt
So it sort of magnifies the importance of those choices then. Like, I don’t know. i i’m I think if you would, I’ve like been pretty sort of laissez-faire here in my answers of like, yeah, the tool is going to do the work for you kind of thing. Like just, you know, go in, try hard.

00:46:24.09
Matt
Well, that requires then using a bunch of the boulders to get that variety. If you’re just like, if you’re asking me if like this specific boulder at this specific angle on this specific board is going to help you reach your climbing goals, then like, that’s a harder question.

00:46:41.30
Matt
Right. And you, so it magnifies the importance of that choice then. So I think by having a bit of both, you kind of like cover your bases.

00:46:47.96
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And you had laid out a few different ways to get both into your sessions. do you want to talk about those?

00:46:54.14
Matt
Yeah, so this is how I like, this is the how about it is for people who like one personality type one way or the other, i think you can use session sort of parameters to help do this.

00:47:05.56
Matt
So like if you’re the person who’s like, hey, I never project, then I think a ah helpful session type is like, ah I’ll use like, a you get three boulders that you can work.

00:47:16.20
Matt
Like once you’re warmed up, you get three boulders per session that you can work on.

00:47:20.11
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:47:21.82
Matt
And one’s got to be new. and one’s got to be old, right? Like you have to have tried it before. And so when i when I give this format, what I’m saying is like, what we’re really shooting for is like, if you’ve got old boulders A, B, and C, you want boulder A to be something you were close on last time. Maybe you show up fresh, finish it off. Boulder B is something you’ve maybe tried before, but you like, and you know, maybe you got on it a little bit, but still have work to do on. And then boulder C would be something new.

00:47:49.43
Matt
And in a perfect world, it doesn’t obviously, it obviously doesn’t always go this way, but In a perfect world, you’re like, oh, I send Boulder a Boulder B becomes my Boulder A for next time, Boulder C becomes my Boulder B, and then new Boulder C. It obviously doesn’t always work that way, but at least it’s shrinking your focus from, oh, that one felt hard, let me swipe to the next one.

00:48:12.15
Neely Quinn
Yeah, no, that’s, that’s good structure right there.

00:48:12.92
Matt
Right?

00:48:15.25
Neely Quinn
I like that.

00:48:15.36
Matt
Yeah. I then, ah i think other, for like in the other direction, um I think a reasonable one, if you’re the kind of person who’s just always like, I just show up, I send a bunch of boulders, is closing a grade for yourself temporarily.

00:48:34.58
Matt
So, yeah.

00:48:35.03
Neely Quinn
Oh, that’s what you mean closing it. Like not, you’re not allowed to do that. Great anymore.

00:48:39.22
Matt
Yeah, totally. So like, I think a lot of people do something like, okay, I warm up, I work up to V6. I climbed several V sixes. Maybe I even try a V seven after that, but I’m kind of tired and it feels really hard.

00:48:52.57
Matt
So I do a couple more V sixes and I’m i’m done. It’s like, well, if you’re always sending a ton of V sixes, you can probably do some sevens, maybe some eights, but you need to stop spending all your energy on the sixes. So what I’d coach then is like, okay, you know, warm up, maybe work your way up, do a V five.

00:49:11.22
Matt
And once you’ve done it, we now know you’re warm. and and maybe it’s not fully closed, maybe we’ll say like, oh, you can have one per session if it’s you know if you will enjoy it or whatever, but putting this sort of external parameter on it and then saying like, great, now you have to skip over.

00:49:28.57
Matt
So instead of jumping into V6 and just working your way down the list, now it’s time to go try sevens.

00:49:28.54
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:49:35.42
Neely Quinn
Yeah. That really takes people out of their comfort zone.

00:49:37.62
Matt
Yeah, and this is what I have to do in myself. I picked, yeah, for sure.

00:49:41.26
Neely Quinn
Oh yeah.

00:49:42.83
Matt
I like sending. it’s It’s fun. I like projecting too. I do a lot of it outside. And when I go inside, I’m like, yeah, I just want to like climb on things and have a good time and try really hard.

00:49:48.77
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. yeah

00:49:51.22
Matt
And I’ll catch myself being like, just wanting to do a bunch. And V6 is a grade that I’m pretty much any board. I can like most often do like a lot of them in a session, and but they kind of feel hard.

00:50:07.54
Matt
even though I know I can do, you know, I flash them or I do them in a couple of tries or, you know, sometimes I take three months, but ah I can usually do ah a good handful of them in a session and I’ll catch myself being like, oh, so another day did four V6s and five V6s, six, seven, eight, 10, whatever. And I’m not really putting as much effort into harder things. So sometimes I’ll have to be like, right, you get to work up, do one and then move on.

00:50:33.05
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:50:33.99
Matt
Yeah.

00:50:34.62
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And then you had one last thing about how to structure sessions in this way.

00:50:39.96
Matt
Yeah, this is this is just what I do. It’s sort of what I was just describing, but I like having a do them all grade. So basically, wherever your flash-ish level is, i just I’ll filter by most repeats in the app, and I go down the list.

00:50:49.00
Neely Quinn
What is that?

00:50:59.80
Matt
um And if I run into one that feels really hard, I go, well, At this grade, I should be able to still make it work. So I’ll stick with it. It doesn’t have to become my entire session, but I’ll keep revisiting it. That’s what happened with that V6 Classic that I tried for three months.

00:51:17.62
Matt
um I was like, cool. I know that I should be able to do this. It’s just kindnna it’s exposing something I’m bad at. you know Even if I can’t put my finger exactly on what that is, I want to make sure I do it. So I’ll keep revisiting it.

00:51:32.79
Matt
And then, you know, even just two, three tries at the beginning of the session, or, you know, post-warmup, and then, cool, then I move on. But then as I go up the grades from there, from basically my flash-ish level, ah you know, flash level plus or minus one kind of thing, wherever wherever that falls for you, I just get more selective about what I’m trying.

00:51:41.02
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:51:55.51
Matt
Like, so if I pull up V7s, I might be like, okay, I should probably stick with this longer. Like, If ah maybe ah if it feels like it’s suddenly feels like it’s V12, I’m like, okay, I’m probably missing something.

00:52:09.05
Matt
Whereas if I pull up a V10 and I’m like, I can’t even like hold half the positions when I’m first checking it out, I might just be like, cool, I’m going move on for now. Like, I don’t have to dig into that, ah that one.

00:52:21.72
Matt
The closer you, it it just kind of makes sense logically, right? The closer you get to your limit, the more it’s suiting you and your style and your preferences is going to be important.

00:52:31.38
Neely Quinn
Yeah. So just for clarification, do them all is not like on the kilter board, like you’re saying there’s 200,000 boulders. So you’re not saying do all of the V6s.

00:52:44.59
Matt
No.

00:52:44.63
Neely Quinn
You’re saying select you did most repeated, but you could do benchmarks or classics or whatever.

00:52:49.85
Matt
Yeah, it’s just like, i just worked my way down the list and I’m not, unless it’s like gonna hurt me, I’m not really willing to like fully abandon it and move on from it.

00:52:56.81
Neely Quinn
right.

00:53:00.50
Neely Quinn
Okay. And that, that also helps you because a lot of times people will go in and they’ll do their same warmups and then the, and so this gets you out of that box too.

00:53:01.40
Matt
Yeah.

00:53:06.26
Matt
Yeah.

00:53:09.85
Matt
Yeah, exactly. It’s a way to ensure that you’re getting that end of the spectrum, right, of variety, but not only sending things that suit you.

00:53:19.13
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Okay, great.

00:53:20.96
Matt
Yeah.

00:53:21.56
Neely Quinn
Anything else on that? Okay.

00:53:23.40
Matt
No, I think that covers it.

00:53:26.30
Neely Quinn
This was your last point and it was, am I working on the right things?

00:53:33.40
Matt
Yeah. So I get this a lot, especially from… Well, maybe that’s not true. I get this a lot. It’s just ah about like, cool, I’m climbing on the board, but is the work I’m putting in here going to help my climbing elsewhere kind of thing.

00:53:52.89
Matt
And I think when people ask this, they tend to get really um kind of fixated on the specifics, like really zoomed in.

00:54:04.28
Matt
like Well, my project has a small right-hand cramp and this boulder also has a right-hand cramp, but it’s in a side pull orientation instead of a gas tone. So like, is it helping me? right um And think what I wanna say here is it’s okay to stay general. right we don’t Specificity and simulation are different things.

00:54:27.00
Matt
So we don’t need to be simulating the moves on our project. just to be making progress towards doing it in our training sessions.

00:54:36.60
Neely Quinn
Would you say that if I had a really crimpy project working slopers and pinches on the board would still be okay all the time?

00:54:47.13
Matt
You maybe not exclusively, right? Like if you’re getting ready to go on a sport climbing trip to 10 sleep, right?

00:54:58.14
Matt
super, you know, crimpy fingery area. And all you’re doing is jumping around between pinches and that’s exclusively what you’re doing. Yeah. It’s probably not going to feel super applicable.

00:55:08.66
Matt
However, there’s still value in doing that because you’re getting, you’re being powerful. You’re, you’re practicing moving with commitment and being explosive and, you know, all those things still apply.

00:55:21.11
Matt
Right. Um, And so this is why I think it’s okay to stay general is because these boards are well-designed tools. Like it’s pretty hard to not, like if you follow the other things we’ve been talking about, right? You climb on a decent variety of problems and you’re willing to stick with some for longer than a single session.

00:55:40.46
Matt
It’s pretty hard not to cover some of your bases here. unless you’re like intentionally being exclusively selective of like, cool, I swipe through problems until I find ones that are only crimps because I’m good at crimps.

00:55:53.91
Matt
And i if I see a sloper or I see a pinch, I just go to the next one. Like, unless you’re doing that, like you’re going to run into boulders that feature different movement styles. And that’s kind of the idea of like that that do them all do them all great, like go in order.

00:56:03.53
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:56:07.55
Matt
It’s like, i don’t know, I’m just not filtering for movement style or hold type there. I’m just like, it says V6, guess I’ll try it, you know, kind of thing and and see what happens.

00:56:19.13
Matt
um But I really do kind of believe in that. Like, I think the thing to remember here is like boards create difficulty by sort of simplifying movement to help us access, easier give easier access to intensity.

00:56:38.30
Matt
right and one of an easy way that it like happens is compare like the height of a board right to the height of step boulder walls like you can and the density of the hole it’s like you can always climb up on a board to isolate a specific move and work on it on step boulders like you can’t always do that sometimes you have to do certain moves to get to a certain position to try that so it’s just like easier access to working on harder moves um And so if boards are sort of doing that and making it easier to get hard movement on fingery holds at a steep angle with kind of bad feet, like that’s good for everyone’s climbing and any trip you’re going on for any project. And so I think that we can like, you can lean on that to just be like, okay, cool. This is going to help me.

00:57:27.74
Matt
And it doesn’t matter if it’s exactly specific. simulation of what your project is outside.

00:57:36.61
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:57:38.98
Matt
So don’t know. Does that make sense?

00:57:40.82
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that definitely makes sense. I don’t know. this is all just like very common sense kind of like it’s going to help you because is built for intensity.

00:57:54.20
Neely Quinn
And so if you’re on it, you’re doing a good job and also do these little tweaks to make it even better for yourself.

00:57:54.57
Matt
Right.

00:58:02.04
Matt
Yeah, exactly. And like time spent on a board, you don’t need to be in a rush here, right?

00:58:03.14
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:58:08.20
Matt
Like spend the time on it, try hard, sort of go about it the right way. Like we’ve been talking about, don’t get hurt, you know, do your best to not overdo it.

00:58:20.28
Matt
And, and like, it it can be that simple. Like you, you’ll probably keep getting better for a bit at least.

00:58:25.82
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I’m going to give a little anecdotal example here. My friend Megan. Hi, Megan. ah She has been pretty much exclusively kilter boarding for a year.

00:58:38.97
Neely Quinn
And I ah when I first saw her on the board, she was kind of struggling on like V4s. And she just went for a couple hours a day, did her did her work on her computer in between tries. She was by herself um like three days a week and just gradually together.

00:59:00.98
Neely Quinn
up her strength and she listened to you on that last podcast episode too. And she’s, she was like, Oh yeah, I’ve been mostly on sighting. And so I really need to hunker down and do some more projecting. And she did. And now she’s climbing like V nine on the kilter board.

00:59:19.54
Neely Quinn
And huge increase, huge.

00:59:19.59
Matt
which is like a huge increase. Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:22.94
Neely Quinn
And she also has been going outside on roots because that’s ah she does both outside. But she’s she went from like struggling to do moves on 12 A’s to now she just went out and tried 13 B and did all the moves on it and was like, yeah, I think I can do that.

00:59:42.66
Neely Quinn
And you’re like, wait, what? And she just fully credits the kilter board for that.

00:59:50.20
Matt
Yeah, I mean, they’re powerful tools.

00:59:51.90
Neely Quinn
Yeah, they do.

00:59:52.22
Matt
Like, they do work, you know?

00:59:54.34
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:59:54.62
Matt
Yeah. um And that that was sort of my the whole point, right, of this idea of, like, thinking of them as tools and trying to make sure we let the tool do the work for us. It’s like we don’t need to over-engineer the situation, right? Like, and you describe what Megan did. It’s like, yeah, she just kind of stuck with it for a while.

01:00:16.57
Neely Quinn
Yeah, very consistent.

01:00:18.26
Matt
Yeah. Like, and that’s clearly the variable that worked there.

01:00:19.42
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:00:21.88
Matt
None of what, you know, you just said it wasn’t, well, she only climbed at this grade or she made sure to do all of them at this grade or that grade or blah, blah, blah, blah. It was just like, no, I just kind of keep going, have, have a session, you know, get a little better, get little better.

01:00:33.43
Neely Quinn
ye Yeah.

01:00:36.16
Matt
And then before you know it, you know, play that out for months kind of thing, a year, whatever, you know, suddenly you’re like, oh, I’m kind of a different climber.

01:00:46.87
Neely Quinn
Yeah. She was even like, my body is changing. I have weird new different muscles and obviously results will vary. Like not everybody’s going to jump five grades in a year, but it does really say a lot, I think so.

01:01:03.10
Matt
I mean, there’s a historical lesson here that we can that like showcases this. you know If you look at like basically boards started like in England, in Sheffield, right? And like Ben Moon and Jerry Moffitt kind of sort of era.

01:01:17.50
Matt
And they also like managed to take sport climbing levels from 13C 14C.

01:01:24.61
Neely Quinn
14D, yeah.

01:01:25.27
Matt
Yeah, or you yeah, we do, depending on, I guess, what you call Hubble.

01:01:25.53
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

01:01:28.27
Matt
um And you’re like, huh, that’s a really big jump.

01:01:32.64
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

01:01:32.98
Matt
Like, you know, and they and they were like, oh I think there’s maybe something to this.

01:01:33.69
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:01:37.41
Matt
Right.

01:01:37.66
Neely Quinn
Right.

01:01:38.81
Matt
And so, yeah, all of us are probably not going to like jump on a board and be like, oh, yep, this is the ticket. I’m going to go up a full number grade or two number grades or whatever.

01:01:50.01
Matt
But I mean, it’s not going to if you if you can like ease into it, learn it. stay healthy while doing it, but do it consistently.

01:02:00.73
Matt
And those are, I’m aware those are a lot of ifs, right?

01:02:03.29
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:02:03.74
Matt
um But it’s not going to hurt your climbing.

01:02:07.74
Neely Quinn
No, no, it’s not.

01:02:10.33
Matt
um

01:02:10.46
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Well, yeah.

01:02:11.74
Matt
So, yeah.

01:02:13.44
Neely Quinn
Is there anything else that you wanted to mention about this whole topic?

01:02:18.26
Matt
I guess I was interested if you have any that stand out.

01:02:24.21
Neely Quinn
Uh, no, not anything beyond what I’ve already shared. i mean, i i think that for me,

01:02:35.45
Neely Quinn
Let me see. on one sec.

01:02:42.74
Neely Quinn
I think ah that there can be, I want to just touch again on the intimidation piece and because I do think that a lot of people are intimidated by the boards and the people who are on the boards. And what you have done a really good job of today is because you’re you are an assertive person and so am i like I don’t really have that intimidation piece and I don’t think you do either. We both are like comfortable taking up space.

01:03:09.05
Neely Quinn
And i I think that that’s good modeling for people. Like it’s okay to use your voice and to ask for what you want and also to be adaptable. um And you always model that really well.

01:03:22.26
Neely Quinn
And that’s basically it. I just think that it’s a really valuable tool and it can be really fun and it’s really useful for people who have full-time jobs and they don’t have that much time to climb.

01:03:32.86
Neely Quinn
And it’s like this really quick, very effective workout that you can do. yeah.

01:03:38.36
Matt
Yeah, for sure. And yeah, thank you for saying that. i I agree. I think that’s a really important piece. And the last thing I was going to is what you just said, which is they can be really fun.

01:03:48.59
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:03:48.98
Matt
Like, I don’t have a commercial gym. And I haven’t in like 13 plus years. So like, if I climb inside, which is often, it’s on a board.

01:04:04.22
Matt
And I’m like, you know, 18 or something years into doing that, like on a, at least weekly, if not more basis. And I’m like, as psyched on it as ever, like, yeah, like they’re really fun.

01:04:16.48
Neely Quinn
That’s amazing.

01:04:18.19
Matt
Like, uh, so like, yeah, it’s, you know, I think, uh, it’s easy to, we just, you know, this like tool analogy I think is a good one, but it, it doesn’t just have to come across as work.

01:04:30.49
Matt
like you can, it’s really fun to go do. And so like, I don’t know, they’re like lean into that. If you’re enjoying it and it’s helping you try harder, it’s not a bad thing.

01:04:41.73
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

01:04:41.78
Matt
um But just, I think these kinds of things we talked about, about like being willing to try different boulders, being willing to try different angles, being willing to try different boards, being willing to take up space and, you know, be a sort of, and actually get on a board, I think will all help you sort of like get more out of it, but also have more fun doing it.

01:05:03.13
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. i think these points have all been super helpful for people. And I love that you can draw from your vast experience with clients. um And on that note, actually, do you want to, are you taking new clients right now or

01:05:19.61
Matt
Yeah, I am. i would I have some athlete’s thoughts left at the moment. um And yeah, i would love to work with anyone who wants help with any of these board related ah concepts. Like if it’s resonating with you, I’d happily, we can obviously dig into it more like a lot of what we’ve talked about has been sort of general and the we tried to use like examples from our own climbing to give it more specifics other than like a it depends answer but then on an individual level obviously there there are more sort of like concrete directions that we can we can head with things so

01:05:57.62
Neely Quinn
Yeah, you create programs for people where you’re saying, you know, prescriptively, this is what you’re going to do in this session. And also, I’m assuming you give them sort of adaptations, if necessary, plan Bs.

01:06:12.15
Neely Quinn
And so then people don’t have to do any really thinking about it. They just go in and do the their work.

01:06:19.86
Matt
Yeah, at a bare minimum, they at least know why there’re why the parameters that are in place are there

01:06:27.03
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:06:27.26
Matt
so that um and can use that to sort of filter the choices they’re making within the session.

01:06:34.07
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Like you’re not just giving them a fish. You’re also also teaching them how to fish.

01:06:39.72
Matt
Yeah.

01:06:40.54
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:06:41.01
Matt
So yeah, whether it’s about boards or climbing in general, whatever you’re sort of working on, yeah, I’d love to work with you.

01:06:47.89
Neely Quinn
Cool. Yeah. And you can find Matt at training beta.com slash Matt. So thank you for coming up with this topic. People loved the last one. I know that they’ll love this one too.

01:06:59.42
Neely Quinn
And, um, yeah, have fun climbing today. Thank you.

01:07:02.88
Matt
I appreciate it Yeah, good to see you and talk to you soon.

01:07:06.36
Neely Quinn
Yeah, you too.