TBP 308: Overtraining – The Causes and Consequences and How to Stop Doing It
In this episode, Coach Alex Stiger and I talked about the ways we see our clients overtraining and the consequences it has on their bodies, minds, and climbing performance. We also share how we overdo it ourselves, and how that has affected us. We go into the causes of overtraining: feeling like more is better, fearing falling behind, not knowing how much training is enough, and as Alex calls it, “chasing fatigue.”
I talk about the ways I work with my mindset coaching clients on this to help them gain perspective and talk to themselves differently. The ironic part is that although people believe that more activity will make the better climbers, the truth is that sometimes the natural side effect of chilling out both physically and emotionally is better climbing performance.
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Work with Me on Your Mindset
I work with climbers all over the world to help them understand why they’re feeling the frustration, shame, and anxiety about climbing that is keeping them from enjoying it and performing the way they want. The results of our work are more joy and satisfaction with climbing and other areas of their lives, as well as climbing with less fear and more joy. You can sign up for a 15-minute introductory session with me to see if we’re a good fit, or sign up for an hour or 4 hours of sessions with me.
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Transcript
00:00:01.91
Neely Quinn
All right, Alex, welcome back to the show. Thanks for talking today.
00:00:06.14
Alex
Hi, Neely. I’m excited to be here. It was kind of last minute and yeah, inspiration, one should say.
00:00:10.69
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:00:13.91
Neely Quinn
Yeah, not going to lie. I’ve been a little bit slacking with ah getting podcasts, I guess, lined up, partly because my mom was in town for a week and who was like ah nonstop fun. So I really appreciate you being willing to do this. Yesterday, i was trying to think of a topic for an email to send out to our audience. And I was having writer’s block for maybe the first time in my whole life.
00:00:44.70
Neely Quinn
ah Usually, i don’t i don’t have any idea what I’m going to write about. And I sit down and something just comes. And yesterday, it just didn’t come. And so Alex and I started talking about topics that we’ve been finding in with our clients. And why don’t you talk about what you came up with, Alex?
00:01:05.02
Alex
Yeah, I mentioned overtraining and the whys that people are overtraining and the specifics we’re seeing when it comes to that mindset behind it. So it’s not just this is what overtraining is, do this amount, like not like that. It was more along the lines of Where did it come from for these people? What’s continuing to be a barrier for them in transitioning to a more quality approach to their climbing and training in life?
00:01:39.42
Alex
And yeah, like why do we keep chasing fatigue, I guess?
00:01:43.38
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Chasing fatigue. That’s a really important term here. and One we that we’ll talk about more later. But um can you, without maybe giving me the details of any particular client, can you can you tell me how this shows up for people? Like give me details, specifics. Yeah.
00:02:03.74
Alex
Yeah, it often shows up after they’ve been expending too much energy for too long. So it’s often kind of when it’s too late and they’re in need of like two weeks off or one week off or a full deload week or three days in a row off or something like that where they’re like, my results have been not getting better and I’m tired and stressed.
00:02:19.44
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
00:02:29.97
Alex
I’m not sleeping as good for the last two to three weeks. And then it’s like, oh, well, why didn’t we talk about this sooner? um so it’s catching it post it happening, which is, I think, part of why the cycle continues. So then you get on top of it Things are good. And then they life gets stressful.
00:02:51.19
Alex
They start doing too much, climbing too many days, having too long of sessions, trying too hard in their sessions for a long enough period that they end up right back in that same place of like, my numbers aren’t going up. I’m tired. i don’t really want to go to the gym right now.
00:03:08.47
Neely Quinn
h Yeah, it’s I’m obsessed with this money podcast called money for couples. And so it reminds me a lot of like, you overspend and overspend and overspend, you get yourself into debt. And then you’re like, Oh, my gosh, I’m in debt. I don’t like this. And then you try really hard to pay it off.
00:03:25.44
Neely Quinn
You know, like you rest and then you pay it off. But then you keep doing the same behaviors afterward. So it’s just like this never ending cycle.
00:03:30.78
Alex
Yeah.
00:03:33.37
Alex
And that’s been my biggest struggle with people is it’s the behavior behind it.
00:03:38.09
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm. Right.
00:03:38.90
Alex
Because it runs deep.
00:03:40.86
Neely Quinn
Right.
00:03:41.30
Alex
Yeah.
00:03:41.97
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it really does. And so I think that some people are probably relating with this right now, but they’re also probably asking themselves, like, what’s the big deal? Why should I stop?
00:03:52.56
Neely Quinn
So what do you see it doing to people?
00:03:55.35
Alex
I see it preventing progress. I see it preventing being happier and more engaged and feeling productive in their sport.
00:04:04.59
Neely Quinn
hmm.
00:04:04.82
Alex
And i see it just being a kind of an unseen elephant in the room when it comes to like, they clearly want to get better and they’re not.
00:04:18.07
Alex
And they’re doing so many things right. But until they address being tired all the time, it doesn’t really matter what they’re doing.
00:04:26.39
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:04:27.72
Alex
It’s like the bigger thing.
00:04:30.00
Neely Quinn
Yeah. It’s kind of paradoxical, honestly, because like the reason they’re doing it is because they want so badly to get better.
00:04:39.70
Alex
Yeah.
00:04:39.86
Neely Quinn
And it’s keeping it. That very thing is keeping them from getting better.
00:04:45.43
Alex
Yeah. And I just see that when life gets stressful, for some reason, so many of us are programmed to kind of switch to more of a chase fatigue exercise type mentality towards our sport.
00:04:59.06
Alex
And then, so it’s like the more tired we are, the more we want to be tired in a way from our sport. And then it just like perpetuates itself too.
00:05:08.23
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:05:08.50
Alex
I don’t, yeah, I don’t know. That makes sense, but that’s kind of what I see.
00:05:12.60
Neely Quinn
Like you get so fit that your fatigue comes hard, like it’s harder to become fatigued or something or.
00:05:19.35
Alex
No, more like work is stressful. So I’m going to go to the gym and I just want to leave feeling tired.
00:05:25.37
Neely Quinn
Oh, gotcha. Okay.
00:05:27.03
Alex
Yeah, family is stressful. I’m not, I didn’t sleep very good. i So I don’t want to like be intentional about my work.
00:05:34.06
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:05:34.10
Alex
I just want to chase a feeling because that feels simpler.
00:05:36.44
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:39.16
Alex
And then too many sessions like that and all of a sudden we’re like in that hole again.
00:05:44.31
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we’ve kind of introduced the topic and I just want to sort of lay out how this is going to go a little bit. Alex and I have decided that this is going to be more a conversation and less of like a structured outline type interview. And we’re both going to put in our two cents, Alex from her coaching and mindset and me from the mindset and any personal experiences I have. And, and so we’re going to discuss a few topics within this topic, but our goal really is to help people see if this is their pattern. Number one, because a lot of times it’s hard to even see that you have a pattern and number two, to see if we can help you maybe get yourself out of the pattern and think more healthfully about how you approach climbing and training. Does that sound about right?
00:06:40.22
Alex
Yeah, I think so. And what were you just studying? Because you were…
00:06:43.64
Neely Quinn
Yes. So in our conversation yesterday, i brought up that I am taking a substance use counseling class, which actually ends this week.
00:06:54.75
Neely Quinn
um I because I’m doing a master’s in mental health counseling. So I’ll be a therapist in about a year and a half, which I’m very, very excited about.
00:07:04.77
Neely Quinn
um But in the substance use counseling class, we learned about non-substance behavioral addictions, such as gambling or sex.
00:07:16.17
Neely Quinn
And um gambling is actually the only one that’s really ah recognized by the DSM-5, which is like the Bible of psychology.
00:07:23.92
Alex
Mm.
00:07:25.23
Neely Quinn
And so these other ones like sex and internet and exercise are ones that therapists do talk about.
00:07:36.31
Neely Quinn
um And it’s kind of debated what the diagnostic criteria are for them. But I thought it was super interesting reading about exercise addiction because i was like, oh, my God, have I been struggling with an exercise addiction for the last 30 years? Because it’s like, you know, with any addiction, does it doesn’t have negative consequences for your health, for your finances, for your relationships, for your emotional well-being.
00:08:03.77
Neely Quinn
And so the the definition of addiction can be quite vague. And when you put it in those terms, I was like, yes, absolutely. And so do most of my clients struggle with this because we’re basically like, we need these endorphins or this sense of accomplishment or whatever.
00:08:14.03
Alex
Mm-hmm.
00:08:22.12
Neely Quinn
in order to feel okay in our lives. um And it’s at the cost of like our time spent with friends, our time doing literally anything else besides work or our health.
00:08:35.53
Neely Quinn
Like I’ve climbed through so much pain and so have we all. So um that was really up for me and I thought it was super interesting, but I just like did a little seminar there.
00:08:46.36
Neely Quinn
What what are your thoughts?
00:08:47.13
Alex
I love it.
00:08:47.71
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:08:48.22
Alex
I think it’s perfect. And that’s kind of the angle we want to have today, right? It’s just um not just talking about the specifics of what to do, what not to do, but more.
00:09:02.62
Alex
yeah like examining, are we addicted to doing too much?
00:09:07.36
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we could talk about just that for a really long time because it’s like, well, what is it worth it to you? Is it worth it to not have a social life because you want to, you know, like all these things. So I think that it it’s a spectrum, right? with ah With any addiction, there’s a spectrum.
00:09:26.51
Neely Quinn
And so it’s important, I think, for all of us to understand what our own values are and what our own desires are, because I think that sometimes we have values and we’re going against them in our behaviors.
00:09:40.25
Neely Quinn
So that’s kind of where I want to get to today.
00:09:43.06
Alex
Yeah, I like it. And we have kind of a nice outline, right? Like, I want to talk about just a lack of awareness that we seem to have, like that we don’t have this built-in system that tells us like, I’m doing too much right now.
00:09:57.72
Alex
Like that seems broken in most of us, but I think we can install it. Like I think it can be trained. I think we can learn how to tune into those signs a little bit more.
00:10:08.12
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:10:08.18
Alex
So I want to, I really do want to dive into the difference between exercise slash should training versus exercise. intentional slash improvement training because I think those two things are very different.
00:10:21.39
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Okay.
00:10:22.42
Alex
Yeah. And should I keep going down the list of our talking points and then we go back? Or should we?
00:10:26.62
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. That sounds good.
00:10:27.41
Alex
Yeah. And the next was just a lack of patience. Like so many people I work with, I’m like, okay, i want you to do less. You’re doing too much. And it kind of sucks and it’s a hard transition for up to a couple months.
00:10:41.37
Alex
And then once the results start coming in, like they’re like, I’m actually getting stronger. I’m sending harder. I feel better. i had one client who was like, the strangest thing started happening. I’m sleeping nine hours a night for the first time ever in my life.
00:10:55.36
Neely Quinn
Yeah, yeah.
00:10:56.24
Alex
That’s a bit of an exaggeration. I don’t know if it’s the ever in his in it life, in his life, but yeah. And I was like, oh, it’s probably because you’re not constantly in a stress state anymore.
00:11:07.10
Neely Quinn
Right, yeah.
00:11:07.96
Alex
Yeah. And I’m like, oh, that’s so cool. um But that but it’s been six plus months of training. Like it took time to get there. Like that’s the first time I heard of it. And it’s like, oh, now we’re getting there.
00:11:20.44
Alex
And now he’s starting to just take three days off on his own.
00:11:20.67
Neely Quinn
Right.
00:11:24.66
Alex
He doesn’t reach out and be like, I’m tired. I’m not getting better. What should I do? And I’m like, take three days off. It’s I’m, he’s like, I took three days off last week. and I’m like, yes.
00:11:35.32
Alex
Like we’ve, the snowball effect has happened. Right.
00:11:39.28
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:11:40.54
Alex
Um, and
00:11:41.11
Neely Quinn
Well, it’s kind of in that situation, it’s kind of like you taught him how to fish, you know, like you didn’t just give him a fish.
00:11:46.17
Alex
yeah, but it takes so much patience.
00:11:47.49
Neely Quinn
Like he, ah he learned. Yes. Yep.
00:11:51.64
Alex
So I’m excited to loop back around to that and talk about that more. um
00:11:54.65
Neely Quinn
Yep.
00:11:56.38
Alex
And then i am also really fascinated to talk about why it’s so hard for people to not go climbing sometimes. Like a lot of my clients, if they have a day off, they want to be climbing.
00:12:11.06
Alex
And if they don’t go climbing, they feel somehow like the day was wasted or or i just see people really struggling to embrace, connect with other activities or hobbies.
00:12:22.59
Neely Quinn
Yeah. h
00:12:24.27
Alex
It’s like they’ll do it if they have to for work. But when it comes to free time, that can be a little tricky, it seems.
00:12:31.46
Neely Quinn
Yeah, definitely.
00:12:33.37
Alex
Yeah. And then that chasing fatigue, like really just chasing that feeling of exhaustion and just being super numb to being tired.
00:12:43.38
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
00:12:43.50
Alex
i’m I’m really curious about that one too as a topic. And then finally, improper fueling.
00:12:52.56
Alex
That’s a lot like specifically related to if I exercise more and eat less, I’m going to have this body or this life that I want as like a deep rooted belief that we don’t even realize we have maybe.
00:13:05.83
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. lot to say on that, which we’ve done entire episodes on. So yeah. All right. So I love those points and let’s go back to the top. So lack of awareness, be which this is what Alex wrote out lack of awareness between exercise and should training versus intentional training and improvement focus training.
00:13:32.65
Neely Quinn
you want to start? Yeah.
00:13:33.56
Alex
Yeah. i see a lot of times that people are like, I’m like, why do you strength train for an hour and a half? And why do you run three to four times a week? Why do you have three-hour climbing sessions? And they don’t often know the answer.
00:13:51.35
Alex
and I think that’s that kind of exercise should, like exercise slash should. Like I should – go run. I should stay in the gym longer. I should have another climbing session or I should stay here for an, I should get on, do three more pitches.
00:14:08.71
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
00:14:09.91
Alex
And I just see that maybe not in all sessions per week, but I see that mentality creeping in a lot in my clients. And so kind of exploring that versus like, I am actually trying to get better at this thing. How do i approach my session and,
00:14:29.34
Alex
like disconnecting from should and going more towards what’s going to help me get better and how can I be more intentional?
00:14:40.49
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.
00:14:41.75
Alex
Yeah. What are your thoughts? How do you help people with that?
00:14:44.65
Neely Quinn
Well, so my question when you’re talking about this is like, where did this come from? And I think that a lot of it is societal, like the biggest loser comes to mind, right?
00:14:56.06
Neely Quinn
Did you ever watch that show?
00:14:56.79
Alex
Mm-hmm. Yeah, a little bit.
00:15:00.12
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Well, I watched every episode of every season. but um They have this mentality where like you’re on a time crunch because you’re literally getting weighed in that week.
00:15:11.93
Neely Quinn
And they have this term that my husband, ah that Seth and I use a lot, last chance workout. And they just go nuts. They make them like throw up, pass out.
00:15:23.40
Neely Quinn
It’s very…
00:15:23.53
Alex
Oh, this sounds awful.
00:15:24.98
Neely Quinn
It’s awful. But that’s exactly how I think this society, our society approaches like a Rocky montage moment, you know, like, and that’s what they’re doing in so many of these sessions.
00:15:34.18
Alex
Yeah.
00:15:36.38
Neely Quinn
And I’m like, well, where did this come from? And what is driving it? And a lot of times it’s this thought that it’s different for everybody. And that’s what you like, like everybody needs to examine. Like, why are you doing this? Okay, what?
00:15:52.62
Neely Quinn
Whatever the answer is to that, why is that happening? you know And asking a lot of questions. But sometimes it’s simply that they don’t feel like they are going to be worthwhile if they don’t improve.
00:16:07.63
Neely Quinn
And often improving is very vague. And so there’s never an end to it.
00:16:13.82
Alex
Yeah.
00:16:14.74
Neely Quinn
And I also think that there are a lot of people, and this is with my nutrition clients and mindset clients that are like, rest is bad. You can’t rest. Like they literally think that if you take a couple days off, you’re going to lose strength. And when you challenge them on that, they’re like, yeah, it’s probably not true.
00:16:34.16
Alex
Well, I’m like, I’ll challenge them on it taking a week or two off. I’m like, the science doesn’t say that.
00:16:38.81
Neely Quinn
Exactly. I have to say the exact same thing.
00:16:39.80
Alex
Yeah.
00:16:41.00
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:16:41.91
Alex
Yeah. And what about, this comes up a lot in my conversations with people, they don’t want to take time off because they don’t want to not show up for their community, their partners, their people, or they they’re afraid that they’re going to lose their community if they don’t show up and they’re not always there.
00:16:58.87
Neely Quinn
Yes. Yes, definitely. Yeah. And for a lot of people, it is their social time. You know, you go bouldering at the gym and you’re like with people, whether they’re your friends or not.
00:17:14.10
Alex
Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:14.20
Neely Quinn
And so I think that it, and that’s also what I talk about with people in sessions is like, why do you love climbing to try to get them back to the roots of their values and And most of the time it’s like, I love the people. i love the community. I feel like the gym is my second home. i get to be outside when I go, you know, like all those other things. So that part of it, I think I’m not going to say it’s an addiction, but it’s like very rewarding.
00:17:41.56
Neely Quinn
And so they don’t want to be away from it.
00:17:41.75
Alex
yeah
00:17:44.63
Alex
And I’m always just trying to examine, like, do I feel i have to show up because I’m afraid I’m going to lose something?
00:17:52.89
Neely Quinn
hmm.
00:17:53.14
Alex
Because if you’re afraid you’re going to lose a partner over it, I think that’s a good sign and something we can, like, turn that awareness volume up on, that it’s an unhealthy attachment, right?
00:18:02.65
Neely Quinn
Yes.
00:18:05.38
Alex
Like, like it’s more of an insecure
00:18:05.86
Neely Quinn
yeah
00:18:10.26
Alex
feeling versus a confident, wholesome, like this relationship is great for me.
00:18:16.15
Neely Quinn
yeah Yeah. And relating it back, I think that we should probably relate these back to ourselves too, because we can see ourselves in all of these, i think.
00:18:27.06
Neely Quinn
um At least I can.
00:18:27.35
Alex
Yeah.
00:18:29.40
Neely Quinn
But I’ve been thinking about this a lot for myself because last year at this time, i was in so much pain. And I mean, I’ve done this so many times too, and over the past 30 years of climbing, like I’ll, I was in so much pain that I could hardly go for a walk and i would still go to the gym and climb through so much pain.
00:18:48.02
Alex
yeah
00:18:54.26
Neely Quinn
And the reason that I was doing it was because I thought that I should, and I didn’t think that and I didn’t want to lose what I had gained because that would have made me feel like a lesser person. Yeah.
00:19:08.47
Neely Quinn
And now looking back on it, I’m like, I am such an idiot. Like what was wrong with me? And that’s where this addiction piece is coming in. I’m like, that was, that was addictive.
00:19:19.75
Neely Quinn
because
00:19:19.83
Alex
And it’s the hindsight, right? It’s like, oh, way after the damage is done, I noticed.
00:19:21.53
Neely Quinn
Yes.
00:19:26.09
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Like what my body needed was rest. I just needed to rest.
00:19:29.30
Alex
Yeah.
00:19:31.29
Neely Quinn
And so, and it didn’t at the cost of, yeah, maybe losing some strength.
00:19:37.91
Alex
Yeah.
00:19:37.91
Neely Quinn
Who cares?
00:19:40.95
Alex
Yeah. I mean, a thank you for sharing that because I think so many of us can relate and that really does like stick to me too because I saw that happening.
00:19:55.42
Alex
I saw you barely able to walk and still going to the gym and then being in so much pain after too that it’s – yeah,
00:20:01.26
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:20:04.25
Alex
Yeah. I want to share kind of why my shoulder is so been I had to take two months off for my shoulder and I’ve been rehabbing it and it’s not perfect, but it’s getting better. And so much of that was, um, because a I felt I really should show up and try to climb more last year. I had it in my head that I needed to increase my capacity if I ever wanted to climb harder.
00:20:35.48
Alex
And that didn’t work out so well for me. But also, um i always felt like I should belay my partner anytime he wanted.
00:20:45.58
Neely Quinn
Hmm.
00:20:46.21
Alex
And was afraid I would lose my StarCraft, budding StarCraft II skills if I took any time off. So any of my rest days, I was just constantly doing stuff that I knew was making my shoulder not able to recover between sessions.
00:21:00.95
Alex
And I was just unwilling to change my behavior.
00:21:04.34
Neely Quinn
Because belaying and starcraft and climbing all aggravated it.
00:21:08.41
Alex
Yeah, because I was like, so yes, it all did. And not in a way that it was like, this is causing the problem. It’s just that my shoulder never got a time off.
00:21:15.93
Neely Quinn
Yes, exactly. Uh huh.
00:21:17.69
Alex
and and i And I justified it because i was like, well, it’s super important for me to support my partner. It’s super important for me to play StarCraft. Like, I just kept coming back to this. But this is more important to me than…
00:21:30.33
Alex
And in hindsight, I’m like, well, it really did take suck to take off a couple months. And now like the place I’m in with my shoulder now isn’t awesome. um And at the end of that, I started making changes that helped.
00:21:39.64
Neely Quinn
And okay. Cause yeah, that’s what i was going to ask is like, if you could do it over, what would you have done differently?
00:21:48.65
Alex
I’ve already started um just saying when I want a full rest day. Instead of being like, I’m going to rest tomorrow, but I’ll belay you. I just don’t say that.
00:22:00.76
Alex
I just say, i want to rest tomorrow and I want it to be a full rest day. And my partner’s totally fine with that.
00:22:10.58
Neely Quinn
Yeah, because he can do other things.
00:22:12.41
Alex
He could do other things and he could find somebody else if it is really important for him to climb that day. I don’t feel this need to constantly always be a yes in that regard for him. Like me being your partner means I will belay you at any time you want.
00:22:29.24
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
00:22:29.27
Alex
um I also got better about giving kind of a max pitch because he could climb forever but I can’t belay forever and be okay.
00:22:39.24
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
00:22:40.22
Alex
And I see that actually with a lot of people and their partners. Like one person is like belaying their injury, overuse injury to death. And the other is just like a 10 to 12 pitch a day kind of person, you know, and like being okay, being like, I can belay a max of four times today.
00:23:00.34
Alex
And that feels so good. And it’s been fine. My partner has been like, okay, I’ll boulder first.
00:23:07.45
Neely Quinn
Yeah, right, right. I don’t
00:23:08.54
Alex
Like it’s so easy to manage. And I’m like, why was I afraid of this for so many years? And the other thing is just really deciding to take off. Like when I go to rifle this year, I’m not bringing my gaming keyboard and my gaming setup and like every moment that’s not spent at the crag doing this thing that I know is hard on my shoulder in that situation.
00:23:22.62
Neely Quinn
know.
00:23:30.68
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that makes sense. That must be hard for you to think about. Hmm.
00:23:37.05
Alex
Yeah, but it’s almost relieving because over like being in that cycle sucks actually. And like when I have taken more time off, I’ve come back better.
00:23:52.12
Alex
Because I am an over trainer. I should just say that. I don’t know if people know that about me, but I have a very addictive personality. I am a bit autistic and i will do something until I have an overuse injury and have since I was 15.
00:24:06.50
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
00:24:06.87
Alex
So I do see the benefit whenever I don’t fall into those traps.
00:24:14.39
Neely Quinn
Yeah. So going to try to ground this in consequences for people throughout, like really highlighting what that did to you over training, doing too much, belaying too much.
00:24:34.78
Neely Quinn
It made it so that you had to take all of that time off. You didn’t progress in the way that you wanted to, i’m assuming.
00:24:42.62
Alex
It just made me less happy throughout that entire process too.
00:24:46.14
Neely Quinn
Because you are worried about your shoulder all the time.
00:24:46.39
Alex
That entire time. Yeah.
00:24:49.14
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:24:49.46
Alex
and I was constantly feeling it.
00:24:49.50
Neely Quinn
um
00:24:51.26
Alex
i was constantly, like I knew i was being bad.
00:24:54.17
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. So you’re constantly feeling like trying to get right.
00:24:57.55
Alex
Being bad, you know?
00:24:59.46
Neely Quinn
You’re trying to get away with something. You feel guilty. You feel worried. You feel anxious about the future. All the things.
00:25:05.78
Alex
And I kept pitting it off. I’m going to rest when we get home.
00:25:08.79
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:25:08.91
Alex
I’m going to take time off when we get home.
00:25:08.92
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:25:10.27
Alex
I just didn’t think I would have to have to take off as much time as i did and have a have it end up being such a painful, annoying thing.
00:25:20.50
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And why did you, did you say I’m going to take two months off or what was your criteria for getting back to climbing?
00:25:29.06
Alex
Um… I really noticed I needed a pretty big intervention for for that because I was on such a bad cycle with I only want to try hard when I climb. For some reason, that’s been in my brain too. So it was like my shoulder would hurt. i would rest.
00:25:47.90
Alex
It would feel better. i would try hard on the moon board. it would hurt. i would rest. I’d get better. And it was just, I’m like, I’ve been in this now for a year. And I need to change that behavior.
00:25:58.94
Alex
But also I need to have a better relationship with why I’m doing those things. Like it’s worth it.
00:26:06.04
Neely Quinn
h
00:26:07.46
Alex
It’s worth my in my life to kind of dig into the whys behind it. Because look at what it did for my relationship. I’m more secure in my relationship now knowing that I can say, I don’t want to belay you today.
00:26:21.98
Alex
And having it be okay. Like that was actually a really big thing for me.
00:26:26.14
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it’s really empowering.
00:26:28.31
Alex
Yeah. And what about you?
00:26:29.66
Neely Quinn
Well…
00:26:30.65
Alex
What are your consequences?
00:26:33.27
Neely Quinn
Oh, my consequences were that I kept climbing through pain and now
00:26:41.88
Neely Quinn
And i I couldn’t really climb that hard. When I did, it was really painful and annoying and I cried a lot about it. and It was just really super depressing.
00:26:51.74
Alex
So you are miserable. Yeah.
00:26:53.43
Neely Quinn
I was the most depressed. And honestly, a lot of my depression last year came from… the pressure that I was putting on myself to continue to climb at my level. And this it comes up a lot too with my clients. I don’t know about you, but I have like clients in their thirties, late thirties, forties, fifties. And they’re, they’re like, if I don’t continue to push myself, I’m going to slip and I’m, I’m, I’m not getting any younger is what comes out.
00:27:29.36
Neely Quinn
they’ They have this urgency that they need to reach their potential and climb in quotes as hard as they can, which again is a very vague, slippery goal um before they’re too old.
00:27:45.18
Neely Quinn
And so I definitely felt that last year.
00:27:45.21
Alex
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:27:48.22
Neely Quinn
And so it made me super depressed to not be able to do my sport. Yeah. Because, like you said, also, I didn’t have really much else that gave me any purpose or meaning in my life.
00:28:01.30
Neely Quinn
I mean, obviously, I have some things, but nothing driving me. And now I think it’s it’s also really helpful that I’ve found drawing. Because drawing gives me the sense of a accomplishment.
00:28:15.90
Neely Quinn
It lets me learn and grow. I see a project through to the end like I do with climbing, which has always been extremely gratifying for me.
00:28:24.63
Alex
Oh, yeah.
00:28:27.55
Neely Quinn
but You go from like seeing something be impossible and overwhelming and then finishing it and being like, oh my God, I did that. There’s like this sense of awe that we get from ourselves, I think, in climbing that I get from drawing.
00:28:40.18
Alex
That sounds nice.
00:28:41.56
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And I think that’s really important. But now that I have that, I can be like, hey, I don’t need this thing to… to provide all of that for me, which I think you’ve always prioritized having things like that in your life outside of climbing, which I’ve always looked up to.
00:28:59.96
Alex
Yeah, but i I take it to an unhealthy level. But that’s, yeah, but it’s fine. Yeah. So I think kind of closing that particular thing, I guess what I learned through our conversation just now is that I was very aware, actually, that I was overdoing it.
00:29:21.06
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:29:22.46
Alex
Versus what I said, a lack of awareness. Like, maybe I’m wrong about that.
00:29:24.86
Neely Quinn
hey yeah
00:29:27.26
Alex
And I just want to mention that. I think maybe we are more aware than we realize. It’s just that we’re constantly making excuses or reasons why it’s important.
00:29:37.98
Alex
It’s more important to us than prioritizing our energy and our lack of fatigue.
00:29:47.48
Neely Quinn
Yeah. I mean, I think awareness is also a spectrum because you can be aware of something like pretty but on the subconscious level, but you, or you can be aware, like, oh, I’m going to do something about this.
00:30:00.04
Alex
Hmm.
00:30:00.59
Neely Quinn
I am currently doing something about this.
00:30:01.18
Alex
Yeah.
00:30:02.44
Neely Quinn
So yeah, I hear you.
00:30:05.66
Alex
I mean, even that’s super educational for me, actually. I’m like, oh, awareness is on a spectrum. Yeah.
00:30:12.98
Neely Quinn
Yeah. But, but I think the other thing is that people come into climbing and they’re like, well, in order to climb hard, you have to train hard and you have to climb a lot.
00:30:13.77
Alex
Mind blown. Hmm.
00:30:26.07
Neely Quinn
That’s the messaging that we’re given about any sport or anything, you know, 10,000 hours, blah, blah, blah. And so when you said on this little, you know,
00:30:37.70
Neely Quinn
uh, outline thing you said versus intentional improvement, focus training. People don’t know what that is. So they’re like, more is better. little, it’s just like they think of with most things. So I think that that, yeah. Okay. I have an awareness that maybe my body doesn’t like what I’m doing, but this is how no pain, no gain. You get what you want.
00:31:00.89
Neely Quinn
So I think that that is just a lesson in a try to educate yourself on coaching and be hire a coach or get onto a program if you can financially.
00:31:13.34
Alex
Yeah, I mean, through weekly StarCraft lessons, I get to constantly reconnect with what productivity actually feels like. I’m like, this is what learning actually feels like. And it helps me distinguish between when I’m doing like four hours of fluff playing
00:31:27.13
Neely Quinn
yeah Yes. Or four hours of trash climbing.
00:31:28.82
Alex
Yeah, it’s just like, what’s the fluff? What’s the what’s actually doing the thing?
00:31:31.74
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:31:35.32
Alex
And that’s something with my clients I’ve been really, um really psyched on actually is just constantly searching for high value and asking them like, is this climb high value for you?
00:31:44.12
Neely Quinn
Yes.
00:31:46.54
Alex
Was this session high value for you? Was that strength training high value?
00:31:48.50
Neely Quinn
And i yeah. And, and I’ll ask you this as a coach, cause, uh, like in the beginning times of climbing, when you, you first start, right. Climbing weren’t for me, at least I climbed like five to six days a week.
00:32:05.56
Neely Quinn
We all did. We were like hands were trashed.
00:32:06.78
Alex
Yeah.
00:32:08.51
Neely Quinn
Our body, we could hardly, you know, like drive home and we got better.
00:32:11.90
Alex
Yeah.
00:32:14.74
Neely Quinn
So like,
00:32:15.06
Alex
But we’re going to get better no matter what.
00:32:16.95
Neely Quinn
I know. And that’s what I’m saying is we are positively and reinforced at that time that more is better.
00:32:23.35
Alex
Yeah.
00:32:23.38
Neely Quinn
And then, and then at a certain point, and I’m, I’m wondering what that point is, like, when is more not better? And do you think that it’s, you know, it, a beginner should not have climbed that much?
00:32:40.78
Alex
I think it’s really tricky. i think it is a joy in life to do something for long enough to really feel immersed in it.
00:32:53.62
Alex
Like that’s one of my simple pleasures in life is actually just doing one thing all day long. Like I love that. It was an eye-opening light bulb moment for me when my therapist, when I was like, sometimes I’ll do Sudoku for like eight hours in a day.
00:33:07.46
Alex
And she was like, but does that make you happy or are you upset that you did that?
00:33:07.51
Neely Quinn
Thank you.
00:33:13.11
Alex
And i was like, no, I’m so happy. And so like, ah because I always felt a lot of shame around it, but then I realized i was like, oh, I actually enjoy doing something for a long time.
00:33:25.53
Alex
and And that’s okay. It’s just that then you have to lower the intensity of what you’re doing. So it’s like, if you want to be an ultra runner, you have to, like, if you want to run a longer distance, you have to slow down. Otherwise you are going to break. You can’t run fast. And and I think that’s what I see climbers messing up is they want to do a lot and they want to try hard at the same time.
00:33:45.94
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:46.33
Alex
in the same session. So I’m like, if you want to go climb a lot, that’s fine. But you have to be super honest with yourself about how hard you’re actually trying.
00:33:57.34
Neely Quinn
yeah
00:33:58.46
Alex
Which is hard in climbing because I’m like, yeah, you might be on a five, seven, but it’s super crimpy and you make some bad choices with your feet, a foot slips. And now all of a sudden, like that crimp becomes a nine out of 10 intensity level for you.
00:34:13.99
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:34:15.13
Alex
And you couldn’t really, like, you didn’t know it was coming, you know?
00:34:18.55
Neely Quinn
Yeah. I mean, this is bringing to mind like Honnold. He’ll go out and have these like whole day excursions climbing way below his limit.
00:34:30.30
Neely Quinn
He’s walking, he’s hiking, he’s running, he’s, you know, like climbing way below his limit.
00:34:33.43
Alex
Mm-hmm.
00:34:36.61
Neely Quinn
And those days are very intentionally, i’m I’m assuming, done on different days than when he goes up to Potosi and he’s climbing on 14D and giving it three to maybe four burns.
00:34:45.21
Alex
Yeah.
00:34:49.88
Alex
Yeah, absolutely.
00:34:50.13
Neely Quinn
So, yeah.
00:34:50.23
Alex
Absolutely.
00:34:51.55
Neely Quinn
So it’s like that.
00:34:53.21
Alex
Yeah, it is like that. And we just have to be disciplined. It takes a lot of discipline to realize like if I want to do a lot, the level has to be lower. If I want to go hard, the volume has to be lower. And then with my clients too, if they are somebody who who is a capacity driven person, like I love doing as many things as I can. i’m like, okay, well, when in the years it important for you to do that?
00:35:17.24
Alex
Because then save it for those periods of time and then make sure it’s sandwiched by time where you are taking bit of a different approach.
00:35:25.57
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
00:35:26.95
Alex
And so you can plan for it. It’s just the unplanned, just undisciplined, like I just want to do what makes me feel good that I see get you know gets me and so many people into trouble.
00:35:38.59
Neely Quinn
Yeah. I think that this is really hard and confusing and why there can be so many podcasts and blog posts and all the things about coaching is because like, even after having been working in this industry for 13 years, I’m still like, well, I’m rehabbing my hips and legs right now.
00:36:00.57
Neely Quinn
So tomorrow I’m going to go walk up Sunitas really slowly And I’m also going to do my strength work. But should I do that on separate days?
00:36:13.34
Alex
Yeah.
00:36:13.46
Neely Quinn
Should i do the act the the strength on my rest day from hiking?
00:36:15.54
Alex
It’s so confusing.
00:36:19.55
Neely Quinn
Both of them are very important for this rehab. So it’s like, I don’t know. ah how are we supposed to know? i don’t know.
00:36:28.89
Alex
Yeah. I think that’s where I’m constantly coming to this conclusion that we just have to get better about listening to our bodies and being honest.
00:36:36.46
Neely Quinn
Okay, so what does that mean? Okay.
00:36:37.73
Alex
That means like,
00:36:38.63
Neely Quinn
I’m
00:36:39.67
Alex
Like, let me give an example. I was training for a half marathon. Technically, I’m not at the moment um because of two big things.
00:36:47.01
Neely Quinn
wondering about that one.
00:36:49.43
Alex
So I had a week where I was – I went for a run and I felt great. I had just rested for three days. i felt awesome. It wasn’t before my period. It wasn’t a blood draw week. I was like, I feel good.
00:37:01.78
Alex
And I ran my fastest four miles ever. I was like, well, that was fun. But four miles is still kind of an upper distance for me, to be honest. Like, I don’t do that very often.
00:37:12.89
Alex
And my max distance is six and a half miles. And so that it was my fastest, I mean, it was cool and it was fine. I got away with it. But then I rested a day and then I went for another run.
00:37:26.14
Alex
And then i didn’t start out feeling good and my knee was tingly. And then it also ended up being four miles. And I decided to finish with hill sprints just because I wanted to.
00:37:37.71
Neely Quinn
Because you should.
00:37:38.87
Alex
Because I should. And I’m like, yeah, I’m feeling it. Because it’s some way halfway through, I’m like, yeah, my knee tingles, but I’m like psyched, you know? And there’s this hill, and I’m going to And then I like limped around for two weeks.
00:37:50.97
Alex
Like I couldn’t run for two weeks.
00:37:51.30
Neely Quinn
my god.
00:37:52.37
Alex
Like my knee was pissed and I was like, oh no. And then like even yesterday I get on the bike and I’m like a bike and then it, the stationary bike. And then at like six miles, my knee starts to tingle again. and I’m like, oh no.
00:38:05.66
Alex
Right. And, and it’s just, I’m like, I made a mistake. I realized I made a mistake. um It’s so easy to do.
00:38:16.74
Neely Quinn
It’s so easy to do
00:38:17.98
Alex
So easy to do.
00:38:18.96
Neely Quinn
and And especially in something, if especially when we are competitive people, which most climbers who are listening to this podcast are.
00:38:29.08
Alex
Yeah.
00:38:29.40
Neely Quinn
Like whether you’re competitive with other people or yourself, whatever, however you want to say it. When I’m climbing, it is very difficult and I’ve gotten better at it. But in the beginning, I was trash at this being like, oh, my body doesn’t like this. I’m going to stop now.
00:38:46.36
Alex
Yeah.
00:38:46.53
Neely Quinn
Or like before my body says, I don’t like this, knowing the signs, like if your knee had tingled a tiny bit and you’d been like, oh, stopping, walking home right now, you know, like what would that be like for you?
00:38:59.16
Alex
Yeah. Or if I would have used my own coach brain and said, hey, you went fast and long two days ago.
00:39:04.26
Neely Quinn
Yep.
00:39:09.17
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
00:39:09.46
Alex
This was supposed to be a casual run. You have to go slow. You have to do walk intervals and it has to be sub three miles. Like what I was supposed to do in the first place.
00:39:19.44
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And did you go in with that plan?
00:39:22.26
Alex
I mean, that was the plan and then I changed it.
00:39:26.96
Neely Quinn
ah
00:39:27.90
Alex
I’m like, where did this come from? Like, I mean, upbeat music, good weather, psych.
00:39:30.05
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Where did it come from?
00:39:36.60
Alex
ah There was a lady in front of me and I wanted to pass her and that felt good. And then I wanted to do hill sprints, you know? So like,
00:39:44.21
Neely Quinn
Wait, hold on. Can we stay there for a second? Why?
00:39:46.26
Alex
yeah.
00:39:46.57
Neely Quinn
Why did you want to do that? Like, okay, all those things conspired to it, but like for what purpose?
00:39:51.67
Alex
I think because I had just felt hype. Like I just felt alive.
00:39:54.96
Neely Quinn
ah but
00:39:57.50
Alex
I felt like this is me. Like, and, and when I’m doing activities, I like to visualize. So I’m like, this is me. Like every hill sprint. I’m like, this is me finishing my race.
00:40:09.53
Alex
This is me being sea biscuit.
00:40:10.74
Neely Quinn
Oh.
00:40:11.37
Alex
This is me dot, dot, dot. This is me being Lando Norris.
00:40:15.80
Neely Quinn
That’s so funny. I use Seabiscuit all the time too.
00:40:16.57
Alex
Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:19.13
Alex
I mean, that horse really stuck with me.
00:40:19.59
Neely Quinn
is a Seabiscuit moment.
00:40:21.41
Alex
Yeah. So, um, yeah.
00:40:23.69
Neely Quinn
ah Okay. But.
00:40:24.99
Alex
So i just fantasize and I just start living out that, you know,
00:40:29.21
Neely Quinn
Oh, that’s actually really lovely. Cause I think that a lot of people are like, well, this will bring me closer to my goals.
00:40:37.17
Alex
no, that wasn’t on my mind. It was just being like in the moment. Um,
00:40:42.49
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And I, yeah. And I can say that too, for me, I can think of many climbing gym sessions where I knew I should stop, but I was like, this is feeling this try hard and this sensation. And that’s also what I learned about in my books is like, or in the book about, um, exercise addiction is like, you’re chasing a sensation that you can only get from that activity.
00:41:07.73
Alex
Yes. And I’ve been doing that since I was like five. And the thing is, is I’ve gotten away with it so, so, so, so many times. Right. and And it’s just like, if you were to look at the percentage of times I’ve overdone it and gotten away with it and been just fine versus not like.
00:41:26.01
Alex
You see why it’s still happening, you know?
00:41:26.24
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah, you were positively reinforced for that.
00:41:30.90
Alex
Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:31.69
Neely Quinn
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So why would you stop? Why would you stop? You can’t tell what’s going to happen in the future. I don’t know.
00:41:39.96
Alex
No, but i this is me saying like, gosh, being on a plan and sticking to the plan is actually really helpful. If you’re that kind of person like me who likes to get lost in the moment, like if if I had coach accountability, if I had written out that week what my runs were supposed to be, i wouldn’t have done that.
00:42:03.55
Neely Quinn
Hmm.
00:42:05.78
Alex
Yeah.
00:42:06.82
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:42:06.94
Alex
So that’s, that’s where I’m just like, why did I just randomly do whatever I want that week? All the other weeks I was so good, you know? um
00:42:16.76
Neely Quinn
Well, and were you on a climbing break at that point?
00:42:21.24
Alex
Yeah, and I think I was like, ah if I was to go back in time, i think it was like the week after I had family visits and stuff where I was excited, but I was stressed. And then like like I had said, I had taken off like the week before was a deload week.
00:42:31.07
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
00:42:35.58
Alex
It kind of like finished up a training block. And so it happens.
00:42:39.19
Neely Quinn
Yeah, right.
00:42:41.30
Alex
Like it’s easy to fall into these traps.
00:42:41.42
Neely Quinn
Yeah, you were in a deficit endorphins. you’re in a deficit of endorphins You needed them
00:42:49.53
Alex
Yeah. and then And then that’s kind of where I’m at with the marathon training right now is like how much of this is a should thing for me? How much of it is me feeling like I should do this because it’s a bucket list item of mine and that I should be able to run this distance and versus like is it how meaningful is it actually?
00:43:11.30
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:43:11.96
Alex
Do I actually like it? Do I want to do that?
00:43:15.49
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And sometimes those things are very hard to discern.
00:43:15.93
Alex
So…
00:43:20.69
Neely Quinn
What do I want this or do I think I should?
00:43:24.69
Alex
Because for me, inevitably, pursuing it means falling in, like, it makes it easier for me to fall into overtraining traps that I’m already prone to just blindly stumbling into on the best of days, you know?
00:43:37.81
Alex
So, I don’t know.
00:43:39.26
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:43:40.39
Alex
I hope that’s helpful to people getting that kind of perspective.
00:43:42.59
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:46.05
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Me too. um It’s not like we’re sitting here saying this is how you, I mean, we are kind of saying this is how you don’t fall into the traps, but it seems like it’s just a balancing act all the time.
00:44:01.75
Alex
Yeah. And I mean, I’m, as in all of our conversations, I i feel like I learn a lot and i get a lot out of them. And it was kind of a cool moment for me to realize I’m like, oh, I love getting into that. i It’s not a flow state for me. It’s a fantasy state.
00:44:18.38
Alex
It’s like I am in the Kentucky Derby right now. Like, I love that. And I don’t always find that easy to get into that place. So when when like the stars align and I’m in that place, I’m vulnerable to really overdoing it.
00:44:32.76
Neely Quinn
Yeah. That’s really interesting. um i don’t think I’ve ever really experienced that fantasy fantasy land.
00:44:43.74
Alex
Yeah, I have to think about it more.
00:44:45.65
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:44:46.33
Alex
I like Fantasyland. I spent a lot of time there. like couldn like yeah
00:44:49.28
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:44:51.90
Alex
Anyway. ah
00:44:52.86
Neely Quinn
Okay. So our next topic technically was lack of patience when doing less is more to really start seeing a difference.
00:44:59.13
Alex
I think we did that one.
00:45:00.55
Neely Quinn
You think?
00:45:00.86
Alex
Did we do? Yeah, I think we did that one. Can we move on to ah other? No, we also kind of talked about other activities, but I would like to dive into that a little bit more.
00:45:10.19
Neely Quinn
Okay. Yeah.
00:45:11.22
Alex
Why was it so hard for you to find something you connected with? Outside of climbing.
00:45:17.66
Neely Quinn
Uh, well, partly because that’s a really good question.
00:45:27.74
Neely Quinn
Um, I have tried a lot of sports and gotten injured every single time.
00:45:33.93
Alex
Yeah.
00:45:34.07
Neely Quinn
Remember when I was doing horses and I fell off and like messed up my finger when I was on a break from climbing because of a shoulder injury.
00:45:34.39
Alex
Mm-hmm.
00:45:39.61
Alex
yeah
00:45:41.61
Neely Quinn
That was annoying. And like I, I was starting to play pool and it hurt my hips. I, um, I started, a lot of things, but also I’ve always been interested in drawing, but I have always been overwhelmed by how much time and effort it would take because I knew I would suck at it in the beginning and I don’t like sucking.
00:46:07.22
Alex
Yeah.
00:46:07.30
Neely Quinn
So I think it was a lot that. And then finally I was just like, you know what?
00:46:09.66
Alex
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:12.07
Neely Quinn
I, I can’t climb. I, all I have is time. I’m just going to do something that’s hard. So that’s why, because all of, all of my creative outlet and i don’t know, like a willingness to do hard things was pointed at climbing.
00:46:31.26
Alex
yeah yeah i I mean, I think those reasons are really helpful for people. You’re afraid of injury, you’re afraid of sucking, and you’re afraid you didn’t have the time to have, yeah.
00:46:43.26
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:46:45.88
Alex
So it comes up a lot for me because I’m always really trying to get people to rest more and take full rest days, and it can be so challenging.
00:47:01.69
Alex
Um, and And I’m like, well, clearly you care about getting better. and I’m like, but I don’t understand because why can’t you do something else with that three hours?
00:47:16.11
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:47:16.25
Alex
and And I think there’s really key reasons for people. And I think it is individual. And it is, i would suggest people find something because that is often, I think, what’s lacking.
00:47:31.50
Alex
It’s why people don’t why they go climbing when they know they shouldn’t. They know they shouldn’t go climbing, but they just don’t have another thing they care about that they’re actually excited to do instead. So they so they decide like, I’m just going to go to the crag anyway.
00:47:47.80
Neely Quinn
Right. They climb by default.
00:47:50.07
Alex
Yeah. Yeah. And so other hobbies, other activities, other passions, other things, I’m like, I think we should spend more time trying to cultivate them.
00:48:02.07
Alex
I like to have at least three things I care about in my life at a given time.
00:48:02.09
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:48:07.92
Neely Quinn
That’s a good rule. I mean, not rule, but.
00:48:10.58
Alex
and And it doesn’t matter what they are. You know, it’s like, it’s just, do I care about it? Am I excited to spend time doing it? Is it bringing me something?
00:48:20.44
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it can literally be anything. My mom came for a week and we went and played bingo twice. And Seth and I have been debating the merits of bingo.
00:48:31.70
Alex
da
00:48:33.11
Neely Quinn
But I’m like, look, it’s you’re basically in in a meditative trance when you’re playing bingo. My mom gets so much joy out of it.
00:48:42.74
Alex
it’s It’s collective play, right? Because you’re in a community, but everybody is doing the thing.
00:48:45.36
Neely Quinn
Yep.
00:48:49.32
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it’s, I don’t know. it Obviously, there are other things to talk about. But like, because this is on my mind, it just made me think like literally anything can give you meaning.
00:49:00.61
Neely Quinn
Like I do these stupid word games every day, and they give me a lot of meaning and learning.
00:49:07.48
Alex
Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:09.01
Neely Quinn
And I don’t know.
00:49:11.09
Alex
Mm-hmm. I think it could be anything. And I’m constantly trying to get my clients to get some hobbies that don’t include burning calories at an excessive rate.
00:49:22.59
Neely Quinn
yeah.
00:49:23.58
Alex
Yeah, like I have chess. I have StarCraft. I really like Sudoku. I actually really like watching TV times too. Like I have things that I’m like, it is easy for me to take two days off of climbing.
00:49:37.59
Neely Quinn
yeah And I always try to bring in some really high level climbers that I know who regularly, take like when I’m talking to clients who have a really hard time taking any days off, I’m like, well, this person takes regularly takes at least three days off between their sessions because they want to be completely fresh so that they can try, so that they don’t overdo.
00:49:51.29
Alex
Yeah. Yeah.
00:50:02.49
Alex
yeah
00:50:04.76
Neely Quinn
And I think that people seeing models like that can be helpful because they think that pro climbers are just climbing all of the time at their limit.
00:50:14.26
Alex
yeah
00:50:15.59
Neely Quinn
But that’s just not true.
00:50:18.52
Alex
And even if it is true, it doesn’t mean it will work for you.
00:50:21.88
Neely Quinn
Yeah, exactly.
00:50:22.52
Alex
Promise. Yeah, like it’s just not the same.
00:50:24.01
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:50:26.42
Alex
Yeah. Okay, so that’s kind of, I think all I want to say on that. Is there anything else you want to say about that? I’m just proud of you for finding drawing. And I’m also still proud of you if you end up hating it in a month and you don’t want to do it anymore and you need to find something else. Like I’m just happy you have something that you’re clearly excited about.
00:50:47.30
Neely Quinn
Thanks. I am too. and I will also say that school has been that for me because before I started school, I, like I said, I was very depressed because I didn’t have very much meaning in my life be beyond climbing and school gives me something to really challenge my brain with and look forward to.
00:51:09.69
Alex
yeah
00:51:09.69
Neely Quinn
um And I think that that’s really important for people. But I also know that people have full-time jobs and they can’t just go back to school. But anyway, I just think it’s really important.
00:51:21.05
Alex
Yeah, and I think this whole conversation, there’s a nagging thing in my mind, which is oftentimes the people I’m working with who struggle with this the most are working so much.
00:51:33.05
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:33.75
Alex
They’re already tired. They’re already stressed. They’re already burning from both ends. So the thought of doing one more thing is just like, I can’t do it. Yeah, and and I just want to acknowledge that. And I think it that there’s some tricky situations out there.
00:51:50.71
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I do too. And i think also when you have a really stressful job, you really do need to de-stress somehow. And so climbing ends up being that thing.
00:51:59.67
Alex
Yeah.
00:52:02.05
Neely Quinn
But yeah, I think that there are other ways of de-stressing. I mean, do you know that like I used to, speak before there were cell phones, I used to spend a lot of time staring the walls, like just literally doing nothing.
00:52:18.90
Neely Quinn
I would lie in bed comfortably and just gaze and just think and daydream. And I do think that that’s something that people don’t give themselves permission to do anymore.
00:52:30.30
Alex
Yeah.
00:52:30.30
Neely Quinn
And I, I’ve, I,
00:52:32.35
Alex
You’re right. We don’t have to even do anything. You could be in, but like, you could be seeking nothing time.
00:52:39.15
Neely Quinn
Yes. Which i I mean, research has shown that that’s where creativity blossoms from. It’s how we process our emotions. It’s like when we actually recuperate.
00:52:51.44
Neely Quinn
And so I’m just like sometimes when I’m talking to people who are obviously addicted to their exercise, I’m like, do nothing.
00:52:51.55
Alex
Mm-hmm.
00:53:00.46
Neely Quinn
Just try it. You know, we’ve lost that skill.
00:53:02.55
Alex
Yeah. I couldn’t agree more that we’ve lost that skill. I feel that all the time with myself too.
00:53:09.94
Neely Quinn
yeah
00:53:10.01
Alex
where But there’s things that help me connect with that a little more. and there’s things that help me connect with my activities more. I wouldn’t still be playing StarCraft right now if I wasn’t taking lessons.
00:53:22.86
Neely Quinn
yeah
00:53:22.90
Alex
I would have hit a plateau. i would have been like, I’m no longer interested in this. Yeah. But because I have this thing, I’m like, this passion has just kept blooming and i’m I’m now part of a team league.
00:53:31.30
Neely Quinn
yeah
00:53:33.70
Alex
So I have this, you know, I have this, like there’s, if you’re somebody who feels like you want to have something and you don’t have it, I would just encourage you to, it doesn’t have to be intrinsic all the time.
00:53:46.21
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:53:47.00
Alex
Like there’s extrinsic ways of staying connected with an activity.
00:53:47.47
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:53:51.19
Neely Quinn
Yeah, definitely.
00:53:52.68
Alex
Yin yoga for nothing.
00:53:54.82
Neely Quinn
Ugh, I freaking hate yin yoga.
00:53:57.34
Alex
Do you? I love it.
00:53:58.97
Neely Quinn
Hate it so much.
00:53:59.05
Alex
I’m like an hour of collective napping.
00:54:02.49
Neely Quinn
So boring.
00:54:03.45
Alex
The soothing boys. Anyway.
00:54:05.88
Neely Quinn
Anyway. Okay.
00:54:07.45
Alex
um Okay, so chasing fatigue. This is what I’m so psyched to talk about, actually. Because I’m like, I just feel like we’re
00:54:13.64
Neely Quinn
Why? Why?
00:54:19.77
Alex
The most fatigued, overstimulated, overstressed, over just over creatures I’ve ever worked with are teenagers in Boulder um who go to Fairview.
00:54:33.94
Neely Quinn
Okay.
00:54:35.68
Alex
um where ah Anyway, it’s like they’re so tired. They… They’re going to school at like seven.
00:54:46.29
Alex
They’re there until like three or four. And then they’re like rushing all their meals. They’re never actually able to sit down for any meals because they do two to three activities after school. And then they have to go home after practice that ends at seven and do like two to three hours of homework.
00:55:01.46
Alex
And then they wake up and they do that all over again. They do that. and And I’m like, we’re just trained over doing zombies. So many of us. And I’m like, and it starts young
00:55:13.82
Neely Quinn
Now, yeah.
00:55:14.87
Alex
It starts so young.
00:55:14.88
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
00:55:15.95
Alex
And so I think recognizing that we’re part of a, like we’re trained to be tired. um And how, how do we realize that? What do we do? Is it important for us to not be that way? Is it okay that we are for people? Like, I don’t know. Like it’s a fuzzy conversation for me, but I just notice that so many of the people I work with are tired all the time.
00:55:42.96
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:55:43.10
Alex
and they’re chasing And they’re chasing that feeling.
00:55:48.07
Neely Quinn
When you say chasing, give me an example of something somebody might say, if you said, i think you’re too fatigued, what can you do about that? Like what, what do they respond?
00:55:58.76
Alex
They’re like, i so I scheduled a trip. I scheduled a climbing trip. like that they’re stressed about. That’s, that’s going to be like a 5.00 AM to 10 PM situation.
00:56:06.67
Neely Quinn
Right.
00:56:10.80
Alex
Like they’re like, I’m going to do super long multi-pitch. I’m going go do all this, you know? And I’m like, this is just hypothetical. Like I’m not thinking of anybody in particular. Um, But it’s so it’s kind of meeting fatigue with more fatigue, like, and it’s going to the gym. And those are the people who like to do 12 pitches or climb until their skin.
00:56:32.50
Alex
I’m like, well, when do you stop climbing? Like when my skin hurts too much. And I’m like, but you have good skin.
00:56:38.26
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
00:56:42.04
Alex
Like, that’s a lot. Like I’m like, I stopped climbing when my skin hurts, but I have terrible skin. My skin hurts like after four pitches. so So I’m just like, oh, but how much actually is that? and they’re like, I don’t know, after like three hours. I’m like, how much are you actually doing?
00:57:02.14
Alex
you know So they’re chasing a feeling like we’ve been talking about of their skin hurting and they have no idea how much they’re actually doing.
00:57:10.24
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:57:10.62
Alex
But they’re chasing just feeling wrecked.
00:57:14.55
Neely Quinn
Yeah. and then And then there are other clients who are doing that. And then on their rest days, they’re running. And then they’re… it’s So, yeah. they’re They’re chasing fatigue because…
00:57:27.69
Alex
They’re programmed to chase fatigue. I’m programmed, yeah, or like, where did that programming come from? Where did that? And I think it’s this sense of satisfaction, right? It’s like, if I’m too tired to move, I did a good job.
00:57:41.69
Neely Quinn
Well, and that’s the other thing is sometimes people will do this because they can’t sleep unless they do. and this…
00:57:47.90
Alex
Yeah, but then at some point they stop sleeping because they’re overtrained, so…
00:57:50.74
Neely Quinn
Yeah, exactly. No, it brings up this, and this kind of goes into the next point about fueling too, is like, I think that a lot of people are over caffeinated.
00:58:03.84
Neely Quinn
And so they’re trying to burn off the energy that the caffeine is giving them. And then, and because they can’t sleep, because if they didn’t exercise, the caffeine would keep them from sleeping.
00:58:09.60
Alex
Yeah.
00:58:15.80
Neely Quinn
Even if they stop by noon, i don’t give a shit about that.
00:58:16.34
Alex
yeah
00:58:19.84
Neely Quinn
Um, some people just don’t do well with caffeine anyway. So I’ve had clients where I’m like, I want you to stop drinking caffeine. I want you to fuel yourself with food instead. And i want you to exercise less.
00:58:36.59
Neely Quinn
And I had this one particular guy who did this for a week. And the next time I talked to him, he was like, it’s incredible. I don’t need to exercise as much.
00:58:48.74
Neely Quinn
My climbing is getting better. I’m sleeping and i feel way less anxious. And I was like, yes, I win.
00:58:56.50
Alex
Yeah, you win.
00:58:57.76
Neely Quinn
But I think i think that he this man was a very extreme version of this, but I think that most people are doing it on some level.
00:59:07.13
Alex
Well, I mean, I did it to myself yesterday a little bit with alcohol. Like every time I have alcohol, I drink to feel feeling. And then three to four hours later, I feel bad. I don’t sleep good. Today, i like didn’t feel productive in my StarCraft in the morning. I feel shame. ah And I feel like and now I feel like I need to overdo to make up for it.
00:59:28.78
Neely Quinn
Overdue in what way?
00:59:30.39
Alex
I’m like, I need to train so hard tonight in my StarCraft because I took this morning off because I was slightly hungover.
00:59:36.57
Neely Quinn
Oh, wow.
00:59:37.91
Alex
that’s strong feelings.
00:59:39.36
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:59:39.96
Alex
But I see that happen. Yeah. and And then I have to be like, no. Yeah. Like I meet that with like, that’s bad. That’s toxic. No, it’s fine that you enjoyed yourself and you indulge yesterday.
00:59:52.28
Alex
Yes.
00:59:52.51
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
00:59:52.88
Alex
You can continue fostering the thought that you want to quit drinking alcohol completely because you want to feel good all the time, but I don’t, there’s nothing to make up for.
01:00:05.21
Neely Quinn
Yes, that was a really perfect example of that because that thought process that relates to eating disorders to at anything, right?
01:00:16.01
Neely Quinn
Like an eating disordered person would be like, I ate too much and therefore tonight I’m going to eat nothing.
01:00:25.94
Alex
Yeah.
01:00:26.13
Neely Quinn
And I didn’t exercise yesterday and therefore today I’m going hard.
01:00:30.97
Alex
okay
01:00:32.40
Neely Quinn
Harder than I would have.
01:00:35.48
Alex
Yeah. and And meeting that with like stop chasing this sensation of like, yeah, I don’t, yeah.
01:00:41.99
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I, um, that, that argument that you made to yourself of no, you’re not doing that. That’s toxic.
01:00:52.86
Neely Quinn
I think that’s where people fall short a little bit is they don’t tell themselves no. Mm
01:00:58.23
Alex
yeah I’m really starting to get better about saying no to that thought and with why no it’s toxic that is not good for me to do that
01:01:04.72
Neely Quinn
hmm.
01:01:12.65
Neely Quinn
Because it because why isn’t it good?
01:01:17.30
Alex
Because it’s it’s pushing me into the zombie. It’s pushing me into the I should do this, not what’s going to help me be a better player at the end of today.
01:01:27.69
Neely Quinn
Because if you did last night or whenever play three hours really intensely, what would have happened?
01:01:36.47
Alex
um Well, I would be tired today. I’d be too tired.
01:01:39.09
Neely Quinn
hu Yeah. To…
01:01:41.27
Alex
and and then i And then I have days where I’m like too tired to be actually getting better, but I’m still doing the thing.
01:01:41.51
Neely Quinn
you’d
01:01:47.96
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And your mind is, yeah.
01:01:48.89
Alex
So overdoing it comes with a consequence of not getting better.
01:01:51.30
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Right.
01:01:54.30
Alex
Yeah. And I just know it’s not good for me. Like, like the reason behind why I do stuff does matter for my general wellbeing and happiness.
01:02:07.42
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And so bringing this back to climbing, when people have this goal of getting as good as they possibly can, I think that that is problematic because it’s just like I’ve been saying, so ethereal. And this, that like with StarCraft too, like, I don’t know if you have specific goals, but it seems like
01:02:34.90
Neely Quinn
what we’re missing is people say, i have a very specific goal. I’m going to work towards this very specific goal, whether it’s 511a or being able to do a certain type of move or whatever, and working really specifically towards the goal.
01:02:52.63
Neely Quinn
Um, and then acknowledging and celebrating the, ah the doing of the goal And then being like, okay, now i have this new goal that is reasonable.
01:03:04.76
Neely Quinn
And within this amount of time, I’m going to.
01:03:06.26
Alex
That’s lacking for so many people who start working with me.
01:03:08.32
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Right.
01:03:11.54
Alex
And that’s what we do together.
01:03:11.61
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yes. Yes.
01:03:14.68
Alex
And that’s what you do with your people, right? It’s like, what is what is the goal here? Mm-hmm.
01:03:19.44
Neely Quinn
And why is it the goal?
01:03:21.14
Alex
Yeah.
01:03:21.61
Neely Quinn
That’s extremely important too, because you can be like, well, I’m not a worthwhile climber unless I’ve climbed 512a or whatever it is. People have really random numbers.
01:03:30.14
Alex
Yeah.
01:03:31.67
Neely Quinn
It’s all different. And therefore I should. Well, no, what’s what’s actually going to fulfill you? What’s actually going to provide you with meaning and purpose?
01:03:41.82
Alex
Yeah.
01:03:42.96
Neely Quinn
And so I think that like, yeah, we can talk about all these ways to say no to ourselves, but I think that the the foundation of it is not having a clear purpose.
01:03:54.36
Alex
Yeah, I think that’s really well said. and And I think it is what’s lacking in a lot of the overtrading behaviors. Yeah.
01:04:04.53
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
01:04:04.92
Alex
Because if the goal is strong, you realize that doing too much isn’t getting you there. Like I know that doing doubles until my forearms and my skin hurts is doing nothing for me.
01:04:17.27
Alex
ah Feeling better. Committing to a harder move above a bolt.
01:04:23.49
Neely Quinn
Yeah, right.
01:04:25.50
Alex
And if I want to get better, if I want my head to be better, my goal that session is to have a commitment moment above a bolt three times.
01:04:37.85
Alex
Not the other, like the other thing isn’t doing that at all.
01:04:41.74
Neely Quinn
That’s a perfect example. Yeah.
01:04:44.06
Alex
Right. And, and so it’s like, yes, I’m going chase a feeling, but that feeling has to be goal approved a little bit.
01:04:51.42
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
01:04:54.78
Neely Quinn
Right. Unless it’s a want day, which I love that you give people.
01:04:58.14
Alex
Yeah, yeah. Want days and want weeks, I think, are very important.
01:05:01.94
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Okay. um Last topic. what do you want to talk about?
01:05:08.54
Alex
ah Well, I kind of just want to talk about how we can examine what’s what our deep-rooted beliefs are a little bit.
01:05:21.59
Alex
And kind of where they come from because this does come up for me a lot in my coaching sessions. And I’m always aware that a lot of these topics just belong in therapy and not in a coaching call with your coach.
01:05:33.82
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
01:05:36.41
Alex
But I often and am encouraging people to go and investigate that. What sport in your childhood did this to you? What thing that, you know, like, um where did these drives to binge and like abstain come from for you? Like, because sometimes I think until we actually understand where they come from, it’s incredibly hard to disconnect from them.
01:06:09.09
Neely Quinn
Yeah, definitely. And when you just said, um what sport did this come from? I do have a lot of clients who played collegiate sports or were like really into high school sports.
01:06:20.51
Alex
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:06:21.12
Neely Quinn
And they had that that, that like structure. I’m doing this every day. I’m doing it for a team. I’m, I have accountability. i’m trying to reach a very clear goal. Yeah.
01:06:33.53
Neely Quinn
um One of them was like, I wanted to practice every day because that would mean that I would get playtime during games. So that was their very clear goal. But they were using that same framework in climbing um without a clear goal.
01:06:51.09
Neely Quinn
And so it was obsessive.
01:06:52.47
Alex
Yeah. Yeah.
01:06:54.07
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
01:06:55.10
Alex
And like I said, like you can do a lot if the structure supports it and it’s smart and it’s thoughtful and it’s like intentional.
01:07:06.23
Alex
But the moment you start doing a lot and there’s no structure behind it, it’s just like chaos. Yeah. Like without a coach overseeing that, it’s like, yeah, maybe that because they got rewarded for it and they, you They didn’t get injured.
01:07:19.42
Neely Quinn
Right.
01:07:22.65
Alex
Maybe, maybe they had a great time. Maybe it was an overall very positive experience, but there’s reasons why. and a lot of times it’s a very negative experience too.
01:07:33.71
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.
01:07:34.20
Alex
And people are left like, I feel like I should do more because I didn’t meet my goals on my, my running team as a kid.
01:07:39.32
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.
01:07:42.42
Neely Quinn
Yes, that’s a…
01:07:42.71
Alex
I didn’t make the cut. I didn’t.
01:07:44.38
Neely Quinn
Yes.
01:07:44.91
Alex
Yeah. Like, and so now I’m always like, if I would have done more, i would have been better.
01:07:50.17
Neely Quinn
Exactly. Because there are coaches where if you have had clients like this too, or their coach said, you didn’t do well out there, you need to go run some laps or whatever it is that’s like physical punishment.
01:08:04.34
Neely Quinn
And so they’re physically punishing themselves now.
01:08:04.63
Alex
hey
01:08:07.90
Alex
Yeah, like what I talked about, I drink alcohol, I couldn’t train last night. Now I’m going to it is exactly that it’s it’s more of like a I need to make up for lost time. And also, there is punishment mentality behind that too.
01:08:22.10
Neely Quinn
yeah Yeah, exactly. And most of the time, yeah, it comes from coaches or whatever, but ah it always also comes from parents and how you were parented. And so I talked to that talk to my clients about that too. I’m like, where did you get these messages from? What were you told as a kid? And a lot of times it’s, well, if I didn’t get good grades, then it basically not that they would punish them, but they would withhold that.
01:08:51.36
Neely Quinn
Or they would give them praise and love if they did do well. And so they learned tacitly that when I do well, I get love. I ah i belong.
01:09:01.02
Alex
okay
01:09:01.16
Neely Quinn
And like really examining what messages you were given by your parents and other family members. And it shows up.
01:09:08.15
Alex
I think that’s a very big part of the piece. Like, because it’s different for everybody.
01:09:11.26
Neely Quinn
Yep.
01:09:14.18
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
01:09:14.97
Alex
And, and that’s not my job with people.
01:09:19.64
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
01:09:19.93
Alex
That’s what your job is like. like Yeah.
01:09:22.20
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
01:09:23.38
Alex
so
01:09:24.86
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
01:09:24.95
Alex
and i think And I think that’s where we can work like honestly really well. too like I wish people utilized um honestly the two of us more on the platform.
01:09:37.69
Alex
Because I’m like, I’m here to provide the structure and this is when you could do too much.
01:09:37.88
Neely Quinn
yeah
01:09:41.68
Alex
This is when you need to do less. This is how much you do. But I think that why piece is so important.
01:09:47.22
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I do too. I think that people can get so much more done in their climbing. And that’s often what happens. You know, we work through these things, people start being nicer to themselves, they start giving themselves more rest, and then they climb better.
01:09:59.10
Neely Quinn
And I’m like, so that’s the natural, you know, yeah.
01:10:02.85
Alex
It’s what happens. Yeah. And or they sleep more and they have better relationships with their partners and they have like more enjoyment out of there. Like it’s just cool, I think, to to kind of dig in a little bit deeper into this very, very, very common problem.
01:10:21.88
Neely Quinn
Very common. Yeah, I think so too. And so last thing on that is it’s one thing to be aware of this and to know, okay, I’m doing this because i learned as a child that if I it achieve things physically, I get love and belonging.
01:10:46.70
Neely Quinn
And that feels good. So it makes sense that I would want to do that. But it’s also like figuring out what you need to say to yourself next, which is often something like, i am still okay if I do not achieve this thing.
01:11:08.57
Neely Quinn
And so while I think it’s really important to have these very specific goals, I also think that we have to practice not being too attached to the goals. And that’s like constant work.
01:11:19.54
Neely Quinn
So, yeah, but, but I like what I like to work on with people is what do you say to yourself in these moments?
01:11:19.60
Alex
Constant.
01:11:28.62
Neely Quinn
And it’s not, it’s not like, oh, well, next time you’ll do better, you know, or um something along the lines of conditionally, when I do achieve the thing, then i will be lovable.
01:11:29.04
Alex
Hmm.
01:11:41.82
Neely Quinn
It’s like, no, i I, am okay as I am and I can go home right now.
01:11:46.70
Alex
You’ve also been so good throughout our entire friendship of um bringing awareness to what my what I’m saying to myself is even before, you know, you became a mindset coach and a therapist. I think you’re just really intuitive to that in general.
01:12:01.66
Alex
Like, and I think that’s so helpful. Because without that, I don’t know what I’m saying to myself. Like, it takes It takes that sometimes. It takes like somebody being like, what did you say to yourself? Why did you say that to yourself?
01:12:16.50
Alex
What can you say instead? like that’s so That’s such hard work to do alone.
01:12:22.83
Neely Quinn
it’s super hard. It’s really hard.
01:12:24.41
Alex
Yeah.
01:12:25.43
Neely Quinn
I can’t, I, I can do it a little bit on my own, but like I have a therapist who works with me on this.
01:12:30.68
Alex
It’s really hard.
01:12:31.86
Neely Quinn
It’s really hard.
01:12:32.95
Alex
Yeah.
01:12:33.62
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Cool. Um, anything else?
01:12:35.61
Alex
I learned a lot. I think that covers it. I mean, I’m sitting here being like, are people going to, what are they going to get out of this?
01:12:45.85
Alex
And I just hope that um they they just, oh like, they finally can
01:12:46.34
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
01:12:55.67
Alex
get the inspiration to dig into and change behaviors that cause this repetitive over, overexhausion over exhaustion, over fatigue, over doing cycle.
01:13:07.03
Neely Quinn
yeah
01:13:08.09
Alex
And, and I really do hope it’s bigger than just climbing for them.
01:13:12.91
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I do too. Obviously. Yeah. Well, thanks. um And thanks for your kind words. um But thanks for bringing this important topic up and talking about it today.
01:13:25.59
Neely Quinn
ah If people want to work with you, can they right now?
01:13:30.10
Alex
No, but I think I’ll be opening new spaces soon. And please, please, please join my waitlist. It is very, very likely when I open up new spaces, it won’t be public.
01:13:42.82
Neely Quinn
Yeah, right.
01:13:43.45
Alex
I’m only going to be reaching out to people via the wait list probably for the next foreseeable future. That could change, but as of now.
01:13:51.93
Neely Quinn
Yes.
01:13:52.02
Alex
So if you’re if you have interest, join. It’s not like if I reach out and say, hey, i have spaces available if you want it. You have to, like, there’s any pressure to.
01:14:02.89
Alex
You’re not making a commitment. So it just gives you access. So if you’re interested, join. And you could do that on the website.
01:14:10.23
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Training beta.com slash Alex. And I am taking clients. So if you want to work with me on any of this, you can go to training beta.com slash mindset and we can work together.
01:14:23.70
Neely Quinn
Okay. Thanks, Alex. I hope that you have a wonderful day. Are you playing Starcraft for the rest of the day?
01:14:30.49
Alex
Oh yeah. I have a mock best of three scheduled and then I have a client and then I have more practice because I have a match this ah is Saturday with a guy in Australia and I really want to win because I’m super competitive.
01:14:44.53
Neely Quinn
That’s awesome.
01:14:44.70
Alex
So I’ll practice a lot.
01:14:46.87
Neely Quinn
Wait, there are ratings in the game.
01:14:48.50
Alex
Yeah.
01:14:49.43
Neely Quinn
And are you finding yourself improving your rating?
01:14:56.79
Alex
That’s a complicated question, but yes, I am. i got a new PR yesterday, actually.
01:15:03.89
Neely Quinn
Nice.
01:15:03.93
Alex
But it’s coming off months of like not really making progress in the rating because it’s complicated right now. And having to really um use all of my skills as a coach in person who likes to get better at stuff to identify and make to be very confident and see that I am making progress, even though the number isn’t going up.
01:15:28.66
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
01:15:28.79
Alex
And that’s been undeniable. Like I am a hundred percent getting better.
01:15:32.82
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that that’s perfect because climbing is the same thing. Like grades are very much like ratings.
01:15:39.45
Alex
It is so all over the place. Yeah. And I’m like, so technically it doesn’t look like I am, but I am.
01:15:45.20
Neely Quinn
Right. I hear you. Cool.
01:15:46.62
Alex
And I could give concrete, you know, things of why, but yeah.
01:15:50.58
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And it it’s interesting that I even asked you that question because it puts the emphasis on progression and achievement. um But I know that it’s important to you. So that’s why I ask.
01:16:02.20
Alex
Yeah, I love it so much. um
01:16:04.39
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
01:16:05.34
Alex
Yeah, I mean, I’ve definitely realized that I’m a performance anxiety junkie. So the last time I played a match, i got nervous before it. And I’m like, oh, this is awesome. Like, I love this.
01:16:16.79
Alex
ah Because it’s also not that serious, you know?
01:16:20.76
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I mean, it’s video game.
01:16:20.92
Alex
Nobody dies.
01:16:22.30
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
01:16:22.74
Alex
Yeah.
01:16:24.57
Neely Quinn
Well.
01:16:24.66
Alex
Like, and it’s not like my, mind like climbing for me, it can be a little more complicated because I do feel like it’s my career and my community and my people and like, but I’m like, these people don’t know my face.
01:16:37.97
Alex
I don’t see it. Like there’s a disconnect with it that I find really healthy for me.
01:16:43.26
Neely Quinn
Yeah, probably liberating.
01:16:45.30
Alex
Yeah. That I get to feel feelings, but they don’t feel as important.
01:16:50.36
Neely Quinn
Yeah, honestly, that’s how I part of why I’m so excited to become a therapist is I’m going to be working with people who are not in the climbing community who don’t know anything about my climbing and I can just be free in that way.
01:17:00.89
Alex
Amazing. Yeah.
01:17:03.15
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
01:17:03.58
Alex
Yeah. Not that it’s bad. It’s just different, right?
01:17:07.03
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it’s different. It’s different.
01:17:08.91
Alex
Yeah.
01:17:09.69
Neely Quinn
All right.
01:17:09.75
Alex
Thank you, Neely.
01:17:10.90
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Thanks, Alex. I’ll talk to you soon.
01:17:13.30
Alex
Bye.
