Transcription

00:00:01.56
Neely Quinn
Welcome back to the show, Matt. Thanks for talking with me today.

00:00:04.92
Matt
Of course, excited to be here.

00:00:07.29
Neely Quinn
Yeah. so um, why don’t we start with like a little, you can put us bring us up to date about what you’re doing with your climbing right now, since we’re going to be talking about ascend that happened sort of recently.

00:00:21.61
Neely Quinn
What, what are you doing now?

00:00:22.66
Matt
Yeah, sort of in the thick of it, of my spring sport climbing season, climbing out at Wolf Point. So I’m at home, climbing around Lander,

00:00:34.94
Matt
entirely at wolf point um and trying to like the season will wrap up sometime in early july like it’s starting to get hot there’s still good days but um and yeah i’m trying to finish one other route had a good send to start off the season uh yeah that’s what we’re gonna talk about but yeah it’s been a pretty awesome spring we had like a like a not winter this year and Basically it led to normally like the Wolf Point season is roughly like a, it feels like a six week sprint from like Memorial day to July 4th due to like road access and snow levels and stuff. And we were able to start going in mid April this year.

00:01:17.34
Matt
So yeah, it was, it’s been pretty awesome.

00:01:17.50
Neely Quinn
Nice. That’s huge.

00:01:20.82
Matt
um Like basically doubled more than doubled the season.

00:01:26.52
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:01:26.61
Matt
So yeah.

00:01:27.64
Neely Quinn
And, um, it’s not like we only focus on s sends here at training beta. We are also very process oriented, but I do want to for people who haven’t been like following your progress at Wolf Point, can you tell me about the other climbs that you have done there that you’ve worked on

00:01:47.64
Matt
Yeah, for sure. um So I have done most of the 513s at the Cliff, of which is a decent amount.

00:02:00.09
Matt
I’ve got a couple, three, I think, 13Cs left, but that’s it. um And then I’ve done, don’t

00:02:09.11
Neely Quinn
how I have no idea how many 513s there are at Wolf Point.

00:02:13.53
Matt
know, more than 10.

00:02:15.29
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:02:16.13
Matt
that’s like a rough, a quick guess, but, um, a decent amount. And then I’ve done one, two, three,

00:02:27.61
Matt
three, 14 a’s and two 14 B’s. I think that’s right.

00:02:31.41
Neely Quinn
Nice.

00:02:32.12
Matt
Yeah. Um, I’d have to don’t, don’t quote me on those numbers, but, uh, yeah,

00:02:39.54
Neely Quinn
so quote you on these numbers

00:02:41.11
Matt
Yeah. um i’d I’d have to like look back at… like like But I think that’s right. um Alpha Male, King Thing, Big Bad Wolf.

00:02:53.61
Matt
Yeah. kill them all. I think those are all the five fourteens I’ve done at at that cliff.

00:02:58.16
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:02:58.84
Matt
um

00:02:59.16
Neely Quinn
All right.

00:02:59.83
Matt
So yeah, I basically am like, I’ve done a lot of the like 14A, 14B grade routes. um There’s like more than a lifetime worth of 14 plus routes, but I’m like doing a decent job of finishing up the 513s and the lower like half of the 514 grade.

00:03:22.68
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And then what was your most recent send there?

00:03:26.58
Matt
I did a route called easy prey um that is graded 13 D um and ah is one of the routes out of all those that I’ve said that I took me the longest and the most effort.

00:03:42.65
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Which I think is notable. And that’s part of why I wanted to ask you what your other sons have been at the cliff.

00:03:49.40
Matt
Yeah.

00:03:50.65
Neely Quinn
Because I think that probably some people are going to be surprised to hear that number.

00:03:55.44
Matt
uh yeah and i was maybe surprised at how long it took me too um it uh i so if we rewind a little bit um one of the first like big routes i did there was called the big bed wolf um It’s like 14A or 14B, depending on who you ask.

00:04:17.85
Matt
Huge 40 meter route goes to the top of a wall. um And took me like three seasons. um Maybe I sent on the fourth season, beginning of fourth season. I don’t remember exactly. But like a big investment of effort. And it felt like a big step forward in my climbing when I did it.

00:04:36.54
Matt
um just in terms of like to do a route of that difficulty, that length and that complexity, like it, even though I had climbed five 14s, plural before that, this one so felt like a kind of like a big step up in terms of those, those other sort of features. It just so felt like a bigger undertaking than the other ones.

00:04:57.59
Matt
um

00:04:57.60
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:04:58.94
Matt
And so after like, kind of epicking on that a little bit or it taking a while, i try to recall Killmall. That’s like, that’s 14B. And I did it in a season, like in six weeks.

00:05:11.70
Matt
And I was sort of like, man, I’m ah i’m on fire. This is great. ah And so I moved to the next route, which is called Okami, which is also 14B, shares the same start.

00:05:22.87
Matt
as Kill Em All. um And I got stuck. I was sort of like, oh, yep, this feels like the next one. i even think, i was thinking about this before, I think you asked me, like, in a previous episode, you referred to it as like, Oh, your new big project. and i was sort of like, yeah, I mean, it’s a big project, but like, i wouldn’t necessarily call it a mega project. Like it just feels like the next one up.

00:05:43.06
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:05:43.29
Matt
And well, I pretty much jinxed myself and I still have not done Okami. It’s what I’m climbing on again now and feel pretty close on. So I’m hope that’s what I’m hoping to finish with the rest of the season.

00:05:56.06
Matt
But yeah, i kind of got stuck and I put, like four see full seasons into it. And I was, I just like, I’d had enough and I tried to climb on it then this one spring season, but it was after i had like fully ruptured the A2 pulley in my pinky.

00:06:16.06
Matt
And it just didn’t feel like i I, was kind of burnt out on it anyway. And it just didn’t feel like, I didn’t feel like I was going to like injure my finger doing it, but I was just like, didn’t I didn’t feel as good on the the opening boulder, which is like the hardest climbing. And I was sort of like, I just need a break.

00:06:31.64
Matt
So i was like, cool, I’ll climb on this route, Easy Prey. I had originally tried it. i originally tried this route, I think in 2016 or like this route called Reamed Out um i had done like this big thirteen c route call was reamed out and It was like, oh, did this 13C, this thirteen d is the next logical route kind of thing. And i there wasn’t much of the fall season left that year. And I i kind of like dabbled on it.

00:07:01.56
Matt
I think I went to the red for the first time right after that. And then it got wet. Like we had a CP year and I started trying the big bad wolf. So I’d kind of like dabbled on the route, but moved on and was like, oh yeah, like I’ll want to come back to it, but I want to do these other routes more kind of thing. So i was like, all right, um I sort of feel like I need to win. ah it’s it It’s different in style.

00:07:28.07
Matt
It’s like really resistant. So it’s not super bouldery route. It’s just like very continuous climbing. And part of what was really annoying me about Okami was like having to do this. It starts with like a V9 boulder. And I just like, I could do it sometimes. I couldn’t do it all the time. And I was just like getting sick of you know basically not being on the wall for very long before i fell off on some of my goes whereas it was sunny as pray was like i get to climb a long way ah get to like have fun going up and fighting um through this like really resistant endurance based climbing and that’ll be great and maybe it’ll like help me get more fit and then when i go back to okami i’ll like feel more prepared um

00:07:50.48
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:08:11.03
Matt
Well, that was my life. That was my thinking. And I think it was a great plan. ah And then I didn’t do it for three seasons. um So that wasn’t awesome. ah And then in coming back this year, I was able to get done pretty quick, which was great.

00:08:28.09
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Congratulations.

00:08:29.85
Matt
Thanks. Yeah, I was definitely psyched and I needed a win out there.

00:08:31.13
Neely Quinn
And yeah. in the Yeah. Yeah. When was your last win out there?

00:08:38.87
Matt
Like, That’s not true. I guess I did, i was gonna say like four years ago, I did this route, this 14a thing called King Thing, um that same season that I sort of quit on Okami.

00:08:52.41
Matt
um

00:08:52.66
Neely Quinn
Which was when

00:08:55.22
Matt
ah Let’s see, two years ago.

00:09:00.15
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:09:00.79
Matt
Yeah.

00:09:02.04
Neely Quinn
But two years still can feel like a long time.

00:09:04.73
Matt
Totally. And it’s it’s not that I, like I’ve done other 514 routes in that interim.

00:09:05.72
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:09:10.52
Matt
But I put the biggest emphasis on my in my climbing ah like on this cliff. It’s like a big part of why I live in Lander.

00:09:21.11
Matt
it’s like It’s what I build my year around. like I wanna ah want to climb well there.

00:09:26.39
Neely Quinn
Why?

00:09:26.71
Matt
I want to climb well everywhere, but it’s like it’s the most inspiring cliff around here to me and where I like really want to do. like like I hope that my hardest roots end up being there kind of thing.

00:09:39.99
Neely Quinn
Like you walk up to it and you’re like, this is this is where I want to be.

00:09:43.99
Matt
Yeah, exactly.

00:09:44.15
Neely Quinn
Like it it inspires something inside of you.

00:09:46.16
Matt
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

00:09:48.47
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I get that.

00:09:48.62
Matt
It’s just, it’s a big cliff. There are, there are a lot of hard routes. It’s a really fun style. Like the cliff in general, just like big long route climbing. Like it feels like a big Spanish cave kind of thing.

00:10:01.89
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:10:01.95
Matt
Um, and they’re big long routes. Like some of them are literally like 40 meters. Like you need every inch of an 80 to get off of them. And it’s really just interesting, good climbing throughout.

00:10:12.70
Matt
ah And so, yeah, it’s like where I want, like I said, where I want my climbing to sort of shine. So for like not sending for a long time out there, it was definitely like weighing pretty heavily on my climbing psych of just like, even though i’m like, oh, I’ve like done some hard boulder problems elsewhere and I’ve done some 514 routes elsewhere kind of thing in that that interim period. I was like, i I sort of was like, not that I didn’t enjoy any of those things, but I was like,

00:10:39.18
Matt
That’s all great, but like i’m I’m putting a lot of time and effort into my climbing time out there and my preparation for it. And like like anyone, I wanna see some results.

00:10:51.26
Matt
um

00:10:53.17
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that makes sense. I like hearing this stuff from you. You’re typically more like, you know, nuts and bolts.

00:11:02.36
Matt
Yeah.

00:11:02.65
Neely Quinn
And it’s good to hear what goes on under under the hood a lot more.

00:11:06.34
Matt
Yeah.

00:11:07.93
Neely Quinn
Okay, so we have an outline as usual.

00:11:10.58
Matt
Okay.

00:11:11.10
Neely Quinn
Thank you very much for that. And um we really want to focus in on why you were able to send Easy Prey this year after all of the years on it. um Not all of the years, but the three.

00:11:26.61
Matt
Well, kind of.

00:11:27.15
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:11:27.54
Matt
That’s fair. you don’t have You don’t have to pull that punch.

00:11:30.36
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:11:30.86
Matt
Yeah.

00:11:32.11
Neely Quinn
Yeah. so we’ve already talked about some of the stuff on the outline, but where do you want, like, what’s the most important part that you want to talk about now?

00:11:42.26
Matt
um I think what’s let’s stay with the root for a second, because I think that like you sort of hinted at already.

00:11:48.33
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:11:50.66
Matt
like you knowre You’re like, cool, so you did all these 14a and 14b roots. like Why’d you get so hung up on this 13d root? and like and and And I think there’s some some cool stuff there. So I think the biggest one of the bigger lessons I’m taking away from this is like a really acute reminder that we climb roots, not grades.

00:12:14.17
Matt
um So if we just take easy prey and say kill them all, which is one of the 14 bees I’ve done, they’re like 40 feet apart, maybe on the wall.

00:12:27.68
Matt
Like they’re not, and one took me six weeks and one that took me, you know, I failed for three seasons, like a spring, a fall, a spring, kind or a fall, a spring, fall, and then did it in a spring.

00:12:42.63
Matt
So like, and one is on paper, two grades harder than the other.

00:12:42.95
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:12:48.70
Matt
um And I think that what has really stood out to me is that they’re, they’re quite different in style in terms of how they break up and stuff. Like,

00:13:01.56
Matt
even though they’re both big roots, Killmall is much more like boulder rest, boulder rest kind of thing. And with, whereas EasyPray, like other than one spot on the route until you’re sort of like through the hard climbing, um then you like get to rest before you do this final exit.

00:13:21.21
Matt
ah There’s only one spot where you really stop and rest in the hole in the whole climb.

00:13:24.80
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:13:26.36
Matt
We call it the not rest, because it’s sort of like it leaves a lot to be desired. It’s like in the steepest part of the wall, it’s kind of painful. And you just sort of like convince yourself that you can shake out there for like, you know, 90 seconds or two minutes kind of thing. And then launch straight into like these two back-to-back boulders that are the crux.

00:13:47.22
Matt
um And so it in returning to Easy Prey, really, pretty quickly realized that like that kind of resistance style is not what I’m best at.

00:14:01.18
Matt
And I think that it was just a good reminder, like working through this, of how the like the style of a hard read is gonna more directly impact your experience of its difficulty than the given grade.

00:14:15.42
Matt
And so I am not gonna say that I like didn’t, I did a great job of this the whole time. Like there were large points where I was like, well, this sucks. Like I wanna be climbing 514 routes and I’m failing on this 513 route and that’s pissing me off.

00:14:31.10
Matt
um And it like doesn’t make me feel good about my climbing. But i think it having worked through that, well would A, it doesn’t like,

00:14:42.23
Matt
that doesn’t fully capture like the experience. Like I’m really proud to have done this for Like it it asked a lot to me, of me. And like the fact that it’s called 13D and not 14A used to bother me more. And now I just don’t really care ah if I’m being perfectly honest um because the the challenge of the style was more important to me.

00:15:05.88
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm. Yeah. yeah

00:15:08.18
Matt
So I think that’s just like, I don’t, I don’t know. Like hopefully people can take something from that. But that’s also just like the, the honest truth of like how I sort of experienced it. Yeah.

00:15:21.18
Neely Quinn
Well, I don’t want to get caught up here. i would like to talk about this for maybe one minute because it’s a whole other episode, but it does beg the question, like, is it sandbagged?

00:15:27.94
Matt
Yeah.

00:15:33.05
Neely Quinn
Like, is it appropriately graded?

00:15:33.75
Matt
Yeah.

00:15:35.58
Neely Quinn
Because I think a lot of us get pissed off in the same ways.

00:15:39.26
Matt
Yeah, yeah,

00:15:40.34
Neely Quinn
And you’re like, this isn’t this great, but I can’t do anything about it because everybody on a day is cowing to the whatever.

00:15:46.30
Matt
yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s we have like it’s been talked about, whether like and I think most people who have done this route think that it’s probably 14A, and if it’s not 14A, it’s like the top, top, top end of 13D.

00:16:02.97
Matt
But i you know honestly, and i’m I’m glad you don’t want to harp on it too much, because like it’s just like the least interesting thing about the route is the grade.

00:16:12.62
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that’s fair.

00:16:13.02
Matt
Like, it’s also just like, regardless of the grade, it’s one of the best routes. I can’t speak to the like, you know, 9A or, you know, like 14D and routes at Wolf Point, but like, it’s just one of the best routes there.

00:16:27.42
Matt
Like, it’s absolutely incredible. And so you’re like, I’m just like much more interested in

00:16:29.60
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:16:35.03
Matt
Like that that impacted my experience way more than whether it’s fourteen a or 13D. Like it was like really good to climb on.

00:16:39.55
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:16:41.12
Matt
and it And it also, I think it was really important for my climbing overall to like be able to do a route like this. and And the debate of the grade can kind of showcase that. Like I think, especially with like pure fitness routes like that, if you like have the fitness for it,

00:16:59.61
Matt
yeah it’s not that bad. Like you can just do it. You know, it’s like, i don’t know, you and I have both like been in rifle and we’ve watched like Dan Mirsky, like casually run laps on routes like Zulu or spray-a-thon.

00:17:12.50
Matt
And it’s like, yeah, they’re like, they’re endurance routes. He has, he has that fitness. So he just does them. Like, no big deal. And so, yeah, I think that that’s where, like, some of that maybe, like, sandbagging can come from is, like, oh, at least within that style is, like, oh, it’s a…

00:17:30.07
Matt
it doesn’t feel that hard when i do it whereas like a route with like a nasty boulder problem on it like maybe always feels hard or something but for me personally in my own climbing like that really exposed a clear weakness and i feel like by doing this route it’s it’s still not my best style by any means but it like it has helped me grow in that style and so it really felt like an important route for me to do regardless of the grade

00:17:57.85
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:17:58.07
Matt
And it also just happens to be like absolutely incredible.

00:17:58.06
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:18:00.55
Matt
So, like of course, you would to do it.

00:18:02.65
Neely Quinn
Yeah, got it. Yeah, I think that people can take some very poignant lessons from that. So yeah, I appreciate you talking about it just even for a little bit.

00:18:10.39
Matt
Yeah, of course. um Yeah, for sure.

00:18:15.00
Neely Quinn
So the next part we wanted to talk about were the changes in your training that you did, which is I think why most people are here.

00:18:22.20
Matt
Yeah.

00:18:22.39
Neely Quinn
so

00:18:23.00
Matt
So, yeah, to set the stage a little bit. um Last spring, I was like pretty appalled at my climbing performance. um

00:18:32.34
Neely Quinn
I remember there were, yeah.

00:18:33.59
Matt
Yeah. like I mean, to I just climbed terribly. like i was and i I thought I was fit and I was just not.

00:18:44.38
Matt
um And I mean, i the previous fall, I had tried EasyPray and been really close. like And I basically had, the previous fall, i would I was failing at the very end of this upper crux and in the entire spring season, like two months of climbing out there, I climbed to that section once.

00:19:07.77
Matt
So it was like I was doing that you know twice a day for a lot of a fall season and then the next spring I did it once in eight weeks or something like that.

00:19:18.10
Matt
And so in coming out of that, I was pretty bummed and was like, I gotta change something.

00:19:18.33
Neely Quinn
yeah.

00:19:25.53
Matt
um And so, yeah, I think in reflecting on like the technical, like not like you said, nuts and bolts training changes I made, I kind of broke them down to two things. And so, yeah, I guess we can go through this.

00:19:37.62
Matt
So the first was I i have always trained a lot on boards. Yeah. Some of that is because I like them. Some of that is also because there’s not a commercial climbing gym in Lander. So it’s the indoor climbing option. um But the major change I made was I just started doing my finger training, like edge lift finger training before all my board sessions.

00:20:04.28
Neely Quinn
Can you stop right there? What do you mean by edge lift?

00:20:06.69
Matt
Yep. So like picking up a weight off the floor with like a no hang device. um Personally, I’ve been using an unlevel edge. um And, but the key and the the protocol is like super simple. Like I do, I warm up, I do a couple sets to like work up towards my working weight.

00:20:27.96
Matt
And then I do three sets, the five reps at my working weight and that’s it. And a rep is like, I pick the weight up, I hold it for three seconds, I put it down, I just count to three.

00:20:39.71
Matt
I’m like, pick it up, one, two, three, put it down, one, two, three, pick it up, one, two, three, put it down, one, two, three. and then rest couple minutes, three sets, that’s it. ah

00:20:50.00
Neely Quinn
Okay. And how hard are they for you?

00:20:52.33
Matt
I try to do it at like like a 8 out, like a RP8. Like i could I could do like two more reps, basically.

00:20:59.89
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:21:00.01
Matt
um so trying pretty hard but it’s like still having some margin from failure um well now i warm up to that like to that and then i do that in my my basement and then i go climb on a board kind of thing but i so the biggest shift though was like i used to

00:21:05.69
Neely Quinn
And that’s how you’re warming up.

00:21:11.45
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:21:16.39
Neely Quinn
All right.

00:21:21.91
Matt
finger training was always something it was like kind of annoying to fit in. Right. I’m like, okay, well I want to climb tomorrow. And so I don’t want to do it today or I climbed you yesterday and I want to rest so I can climb tomorrow, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:21:37.14
Matt
And so but by seeing it as something that I had to devote a whole session to it, the, the, the consequence of that was that I just did less of it.

00:21:50.01
Matt
And i was also coming off of, like I had a couple years with some finger tweaks specifically in my pinkies, like ah a full rupture of A2 pulley in one and then a tweak in another.

00:22:04.28
Matt
and so I was like, I gotta to get my fingers healthy. And like, I just gotta get this under control. Like this isn’t, it feels like it’s a main limiter is like, oh, every winter I i hurt one of my pinkies and then I get to deal with rehabbing that for a substantial portion of the year and then that’s obviously like a setback.

00:22:23.00
Matt
um

00:22:23.32
Neely Quinn
Which I just have to put something in here. I do think it’s so ironic that some people call you pinky because of pinkies.

00:22:29.59
Matt
Yeah. And I just snapped my pinkies.

00:22:31.20
Neely Quinn
And then you’ve been having these pinky issues.

00:22:32.07
Matt
Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:34.00
Neely Quinn
Not that it’s a laughing matter. I’m just kind of. yeah

00:22:36.86
Matt
That’s far enough in the past we can laugh about it. Hopefully knock on wood.

00:22:39.03
Neely Quinn
Okay. Anyway, keep going.

00:22:40.57
Matt
Yeah. But so I think by just setting up this, like, I i just don’t debate it anymore. Like if I’m gonna climb on a board, the whole thing takes me like 20 minutes, like warm up to doing the heavy sets.

00:22:55.38
Matt
So like, cool. I just do that before my board climbing every time.

00:22:59.86
Neely Quinn
Okay.

00:23:00.34
Matt
So it really increased the frequency of my finger training and it has gone like a very long way to helping my fingers feel healthy. Like I have not seen like dramatic increases in my numbers

00:23:08.44
Neely Quinn
okay

00:23:14.81
Matt
Like, you know, like I’ve made a little bit of progress kind of thing. Like, you know, I probably added like 10 pounds maybe. um But like, I feel, my fingers feel healthier, especially crimping.

00:23:27.70
Matt
And I knock on wood have not had finger injuries basically.

00:23:32.31
Neely Quinn
Okay. And a couple questions there. How often are you increasing your weight?

00:23:38.97
Matt
ah

00:23:42.23
Matt
I’m pretty conservative there. So I wait to increase the load until it feels like I need to, not as soon as I think I can.

00:23:53.91
Neely Quinn
What do you mean need to?

00:23:55.83
Matt
Like it feels dramatically easier. So if I’m like targeting RPE8, it’s like, oh, I’ve had for a couple sessions now, it’s like, it’s maybe like, it’s it’s definitely not RPE8, maybe it’s RPE7 or even RPE6.

00:23:58.81
Neely Quinn
ah

00:24:10.33
Matt
like I really try to feel like I’ve owned that weight and I like have to progress the load to like keep getting the right stimulus rather than, I think a lot of people and myself in the past have always, it’s like, oh, okay, I did 70 pounds.

00:24:16.39
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:24:25.53
Matt
Like bet next time I could do 75. And I’m, you know, i’ve I’ve spent, I like oscillate basically basically between 70 pounds and 80 pounds. and eighty pounds on those lists, depending on like how strong I’m feeling, how much I’ve been training versus, you know, climbing outside.

00:24:43.93
Matt
Um, and yeah, it’s just like, I don’t stress that variation and I wait until it’s like, oh, I like, I’ve really owned this load. I have to increase rather than just like thinking, oh, maybe I can.

00:25:00.08
Matt
Um, yeah.

00:25:00.67
Neely Quinn
No, that makes sense. That’s a good guideline. Really good. And does it affect your board climbing at all to do that? Because I think that that’s one thing that people don’t want.

00:25:09.40
Matt
Totally. And it’s something that for years I was like completely against. And I think I just got wrong. No, if anything, I think it helps my board climbing. I just feel better warming up like more.

00:25:18.56
Neely Quinn
Mm

00:25:20.56
Matt
I feel less tweaky when I’m initially warming up on the board and I can get into my session faster. Um, like trying hard in my session faster.

00:25:25.52
Neely Quinn
hmm.

00:25:28.73
Matt
i I can genuinely say I don’t notice any like, oh, I can’t, I’m like fatigued.

00:25:28.89
Neely Quinn
Yeah, and I think that’s like…

00:25:35.95
Matt
So I’m not climbing as well.

00:25:37.98
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:25:38.02
Matt
Um, cause it’s a pretty minimal amount of like time under tension right like three sets of five reps and a rep is three seconds that’s 45 total seconds of time under tension like it’s really not that much right um but it’s like it gets recruited it’s predictable load gets know like i think it it has a lot of benefits and then i’m still continuing doing it

00:25:39.48
Neely Quinn
Okay. Yeah.

00:25:51.45
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:25:54.71
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:26:05.05
Neely Quinn
Okay. And have you noticed a significant difference on the wall?

00:26:10.71
Matt
For sure. um

00:26:12.25
Neely Quinn
How so?

00:26:14.55
Matt
I can crimp. Yeah, like I know that sounds like pretty tongue-in-cheek, but like I

00:26:25.78
Matt
ah used to be a lot better at crimping than I was, or and still am, frankly. But I think a combination of some finger injuries, climbing a lot on pockets, bouldering less, I had…

00:26:40.63
Matt
become way more comfortable climbing open hand, half crimp, just like balled up basic board style crimping had become like a pretty glaring weakness for me.

00:26:52.95
Matt
um

00:26:53.06
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:26:53.85
Matt
And i’m I can like regularly do things now that would have felt like impossible beforehand on the wall. so like And I think that’s really important to point out because That’s like the number increase, like, oh, cool.

00:27:13.20
Matt
You added 10 total pounds in like two years kind of thing to your, to your edge.

00:27:17.21
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:27:19.64
Matt
It’s like, it sounds really modest, right? Like, oh yeah. Like, cool. But the impact in my actual climbing has been really dramatic.

00:27:28.44
Neely Quinn
Right. And the literature and like the people talking about finger training are, that’s what they’ve been saying for a while, you know, like, cause all of us who’ve been climbing for a long time, we would go climbing and then we would do our finger session afterward, but we’re fatigued then.

00:27:37.62
Matt
Yeah.

00:27:45.98
Neely Quinn
And so we can’t even recruit, which isn’t very good for strength gains. And so it does make sense that you would do it when you’re fresh and really ready to try hard.

00:27:55.96
Matt
Yeah. Couldn’t agree.

00:27:56.93
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:27:57.05
Matt
And yeah, it’s something like, like i said, I think it’s important to be able to admit when you’ve got something wrong. And I got that wrong for a long time in my own training, in my coaching, et cetera.

00:28:02.58
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:28:07.25
Matt
But it, uh, it’s made a big difference for me and I definitely plan on not stopping it.

00:28:11.19
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:28:14.10
Matt
Like,

00:28:14.26
Neely Quinn
Okay. That’s great. Good lesson learned. And you said that you are using an, um, and I know I can’t, it’s like, yes, an unlevel edge.

00:28:24.67
Matt
Unlevel. Edge.

00:28:26.56
Neely Quinn
And so is that because you specifically wanted to engage your pinkies more?

00:28:31.42
Matt
yeah exactly i literally couldn’t like people aren’t gonna be able to see this but i couldn’t like do that like just actually put my pinkies pip joint into acute flexion like into a crimp position without like having to physically manipulate my pinky like i’d have to like bend it i have shorter pinkies they just don’t go into that position and so i was like cool that’s when i keep hurting myself is when my pinky does like when a hole does force it into that position

00:28:32.78
Neely Quinn
Oh.

00:29:01.24
Matt
And I’m like, I don’t know what, like on a flat edge, like they just don’t go into that position regularly. So like, how can I train? That sounds like, well, if I want to build resilience in that position, I have to load it that way. And the unlevel edge is like a really good tool for that.

00:29:18.57
Neely Quinn
Huh. I just realized that I don’t really, i think I have short pinkies too. I know that people aren’t going be able to see this mostly, but can I see your pinkies?

00:29:23.26
Matt
Yeah.

00:29:26.61
Neely Quinn
Can I see your hand? Okay. Mine is. a

00:29:30.49
Matt
Yeah.

00:29:30.55
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.

00:29:31.93
Matt
um

00:29:31.92
Neely Quinn
It is a lot shorter. Yeah.

00:29:33.05
Matt
I mean, I think this is a common thing for people, like, that it doesn’t go into acute flexion all the time.

00:29:35.54
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:29:38.87
Matt
And, i yeah, I think the unlevel edge is, like, a good tool for that. Like, whether it’s for working around injury prevention or just, like, obviously, if you have four fingers that are…

00:29:51.86
Matt
crimping instead of three that are crimping and one that’s just like sort of hanging out on the side like it’s like that’s that’s gonna be kind of helpful um and so yeah that that’s my reason for doing it um for like switching to an unlevel edge but yeah

00:29:55.70
Neely Quinn
Yeah. ah

00:29:59.92
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:30:05.78
Neely Quinn
Nice. Cool. And then you did another thing in your training. What was that?

00:30:12.12
Matt
uh most of my endurance training over the years has fallen into two categories. One has been climbing a lot outside on just routes. Like there’s no route, Jim and Lander. So i just go climbing. Um, and then the other has been like doing higher intensity power endurance work, like interval style.

00:30:32.18
Matt
So like on the minute boulders and things like that, where, you know, like do a kilter board problem, you know, it’s like six or seven moves or whatever takes 20 to 25 seconds to climb.

00:30:42.33
Matt
rest the rest of the minute, 35, 40 seconds, repeat, you know, for whatever whatever the the workout kind of is. um And I shifted to doing longer circuits on a board.

00:30:54.17
Matt
um And so I think we’ve put out video of this, but I basically set like a, it started as like a 25 move circuit and I, on the kilter board and I would climb the circuit and climb it into a boulder problem.

00:31:07.77
Matt
Um, so it was like somewhere around like 32 moves and I progressed it until the circuit was like 30 moves into this V6 boulder. Um, and I would do it six times in a session, um, with like 10 minute rest in between.

00:31:24.00
Matt
So just shifting to longer circuits.

00:31:25.71
Neely Quinn
Wow.

00:31:28.09
Matt
Um, and Yeah, it…

00:31:32.15
Neely Quinn
So your whole session would just be those 30 moves plus a V six, six times.

00:31:37.35
Matt
Yeah, six times. Yeah, I’d like do a normal bouldering warmup, get to a place where I was like climbing well. I’d usually go to like do a V6 or a V7 on the kilter board.

00:31:47.74
Matt
So I’m like, okay, I’m warmed up, I’m recruited, I’m ready to try hard. And then I’d take a break. And then I would do my circuit, do the… into the boulder, you know, and there’s no stepping off. It’s just like, I literally would just, I sat up in the kilter app, like, uh, I just like made a draft of a problem. Like it would make no sense to everyone. It’s just like a bunch of lit up holds. Uh, and it’s like a, a circle basically.

00:32:13.72
Matt
And I finished it at the bottom on this one jug where I could reach down and I knew the spot on the pad where I’d put my phone. So I could reach it and I swipe and it would light up the boulder.

00:32:24.89
Matt
And then I climb into the V six and yeah. Fight like hell on that. um

00:32:30.33
Neely Quinn
Nice.

00:32:31.13
Matt
Yeah. And I, I kind of like the goal was always like to have the first three to four, like for sure I could do them. And then the last two to three would be like fights.

00:32:44.12
Matt
um

00:32:44.22
Neely Quinn
Sometimes you would fall.

00:32:45.56
Matt
Yeah, exactly. And as soon as I couldn’t, as soon as I went six for six, I would,

00:32:46.89
Neely Quinn
Uh-huh.

00:32:50.90
Matt
I would increase the, at first I, the first change I made was I actually, originally it was into a V5 boulder and then I moved to this one V6. Um, and then I added moves. I made the circuit longer.

00:33:04.63
Matt
And then I actually, um, I also started wearing a weight vest, uh, at one point.

00:33:08.60
Neely Quinn
Hmm. Interesting.

00:33:10.42
Matt
Yeah.

00:33:11.29
Neely Quinn
And, um, I think that people like not everybody’s climbing the same level as you. And so how did you decide how hard the circuit would be?

00:33:22.20
Matt
Yeah. Good question. Um, trial and error.

00:33:25.69
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:33:26.14
Matt
Like the first session is like a complete throwaway. Like you’re going to have to set the circuit.

00:33:29.61
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:33:31.99
Matt
ah wait, is, does this boulder work like, or is it too, you know, too proxy or too whatever? Um, and so, you know, it took me a couple of sessions to like get it dialed in.

00:33:43.24
Matt
Um, but really I was looking the, the judge was just like, and I think this applies to any kind of energy system or interval work. is like you need to judge the intensity of what you’re doing based on the last couple sets, not the first couple sets.

00:34:01.46
Matt
So like, It feels easy for me to do that circuit into the boulder once.

00:34:07.08
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:34:07.44
Matt
There’s like no way I would ever drop it the first time, kind of thing. ah The last time, at whatever intensity of them it sort of doing it at, is like it feels like all out red point level like limit fight.

00:34:22.14
Matt
So, Obviously, if you make it too hard, you’re going to start failing earlier in the circuit or earlier in the boulder in the earlier rounds, and then you’re getting in less meaningful work.

00:34:34.55
Matt
So those sessions would often feel like i was like, kind of like, okay, well, that was easy. Lap one, cool, rest 10 minutes. Okay, that was pretty easy. Lap two, rest 10 minutes.

00:34:47.36
Matt
Lap three, I’d usually be like, okay, I’m i’m like trying. pretty hard in the boulder now. And then somewhere in between laps four and five, I’d be like, um, I’m fighting all out, like screaming and or falling off.

00:35:03.26
Matt
And then usually by lap six, it was like, you know, I’ve only ticked the workout a handful of times. Cause then I would, I’d then progress it right.

00:35:09.16
Neely Quinn
Hmm.

00:35:11.74
Matt
And make it harder. Um,

00:35:14.70
Neely Quinn
That’s really good to know. I mean, again, you’re not going by grades. You’re only going by feel.

00:35:20.15
Matt
Yeah, exactly.

00:35:21.40
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:35:21.66
Matt
And like the the circuit itself is like mostly jugs.

00:35:22.01
Neely Quinn
And.

00:35:25.85
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:35:25.89
Matt
Like I, and I think of people, cause I’ve given this workout to some of my athletes. And I think a lot of people are like, get a, it’s like, not only is it mostly jugs, like the circuit by itself, it’s like poor route setting.

00:35:40.38
Matt
You know, like it doesn’t need to be a work of art here. It’s just like doing moves. I do it at 45 degrees also.

00:35:46.11
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:35:46.22
Matt
And I said it in like, a minute. don’t know. I just was like, okay, I’m going to start here and like jog, jog, jog, down climb, jog, jog, jog, like move back. And I, you know, was like, I had to like start in a finish. I, you know, I knew where I wanted the circuit to finish so I could link into this boulder.

00:36:05.88
Matt
And I just kind of like worked backwards from that and was like, cool. I want like 30 ish moves. So let me pick 30 ish good holds, uh, to get me there.

00:36:13.56
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:36:15.61
Matt
Um, yeah.

00:36:16.27
Neely Quinn
That’s funny.

00:36:17.50
Matt
So yeah, it’s like, Like it it would be like an embarrassing thing to like publish as a Boulder problem in the Kilter app. People would be like, what the hell is this?

00:36:27.75
Matt
Like, you know, but ah yeah, exactly.

00:36:29.18
Neely Quinn
Don’t do Pekus’s roots.

00:36:31.50
Matt
Like, but it it works really well for me.

00:36:34.39
Neely Quinn
Okay. And how long did you do these circuits for? Like how many sessions, how many weeks? Yeah.

00:36:40.57
Matt
Not very many. And I think that’s a critical point here. Like I included this cause it is a change I made and it definitely helped. Like, so last spring, was sucking on the root, started doing this over the summer.

00:36:53.75
Matt
I probably, I think I did six total sessions before it was like, I was just like, oh, it’s time to go again. Like it’s the fall season, um six total sessions.

00:37:05.17
Matt
And like my first go of that of last fall was better than any single go the previous spring.

00:37:11.99
Neely Quinn
Ah, you said that. And now i see why Yeah.

00:37:13.11
Matt
Yeah. Yeah. So that was helpful. And then, so I got close in the fall, but didn’t, didn’t like seal the deal. And then over the winter, i was kind of like, obviously, even though I climbed better and I was like feeling better about my sport climbing, I still hadn’t sent. And I was like, I just needed a, a break from this. So, and it was winter. Um, and so I went bouldering, like bouldered around Lander for the fall, went to Waco and then honestly, until basically March this year.

00:37:45.82
Matt
ah I didn’t climb at all on a rope from October 20th last year until mid-March this year. um And I did this circuit workout five times within that.

00:37:58.07
Neely Quinn
From March to April when before you started.

00:37:59.45
Matt
Yeah, and and it was more like towards the end of that.

00:38:02.78
Neely Quinn
and then how how many times did it take you to send?

00:38:09.05
Matt
going on a meter roll.

00:38:12.69
Matt
I mean, like two and a half weeks, maybe, of going, you know, going two to three times a week.

00:38:15.93
Neely Quinn
Like four sessions. Uh-huh.

00:38:18.08
Matt
Yeah. So like, don’t know, somewhere in the four to six. think I think if I had to guess, it was like the sixth to eighth day back out.

00:38:26.68
Neely Quinn
And one last question about these circuits, because they seem really metabolically taxing and it seems like you would need quite a bit of rest between sessions.

00:38:32.45
Matt
Yep.

00:38:35.77
Neely Quinn
What do you think?

00:38:37.17
Matt
Um, yeah, I would always take a rest day after it. I never did them more than once a week.

00:38:43.30
Neely Quinn
Oh, okay.

00:38:43.38
Matt
Um, and, but I would often do them second day on, um,

00:38:48.54
Neely Quinn
Oh, after projecting, after bouldering.

00:38:52.86
Matt
like I’d go bouldering either on a board or outside and then I’d just do them the next day. And that’s mostly because otherwise I just wouldn’t do them because it’s,

00:39:03.06
Neely Quinn
I mean, it makes sense that you would do them after a bouldering session and not before.

00:39:05.91
Matt
Yeah, like you wouldn’t wanna go the other way. Like you wouldn’t wanna do these and then try to limit boulder the next day.

00:39:07.90
Neely Quinn
Right. Yeah.

00:39:10.83
Matt
You always wanna go from like most intense to least intense. So even like you said, these are metabolically taxing. The actual like max level of the moves is lower, right?

00:39:21.08
Neely Quinn
Right.

00:39:21.85
Matt
um

00:39:21.88
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:39:23.06
Matt
But the main reason was like we had access to all these bouldering areas because it didn’t snow this year basically that normally are snowed in all inner in like really good conditions. So I was like, there’s all these boulders I wanna do And i was like, yeah, I want to send in the spring, but like, I also want to do these boulders and it feels like a silly thing to not take advantage of.

00:39:41.56
Matt
So I was like, well, if I have to be like, cool, going to take two days off, then do this circuit workout. And then I got to take two days off or even one day off on either end. i was just like, yeah, I’m probably not going to do it consistently.

00:39:54.20
Matt
And so while I was bouldering this winter,

00:39:54.46
Neely Quinn
I mean,

00:39:57.50
Matt
the only training program I quote was on was like, I made sure I was doing my edge lists and board climbing at least once a week. Like that was it.

00:40:08.95
Matt
And then I’d go outside and try, uh, try boulder problems. And I would, you know, once I sort of reintroduced these, I was like, you know, doing them. I just do the go bouldering one day, do them the next day. And that was like the only way I could like honestly make myself do them. Cause I wanted to climb elsewhere.

00:40:26.78
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:40:27.15
Matt
Uh,

00:40:27.83
Neely Quinn
Yeah. You’re basically doing logical progression program.

00:40:30.83
Matt
Yeah. But I think the key point here is like, while ah while I do think this is like a helpful like training change for me, in a year, I did 11 sessions.

00:40:42.97
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:40:43.70
Matt
Right? Like, i think people get I think people get really carried away with

00:40:44.03
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:40:47.93
Matt
or can get really carried away with this kind of training where it’s like, you know, cool. I like, i’ve I’m on my 34th session or whatever of this and not, and I, I don’t know. I, it just feels like a lot. And I, and it, uh, if you can be climbing outside on a rope, I think it’s, it’s often a better use of your time.

00:41:11.19
Neely Quinn
I think that that comes with a lot of caveats that we don’t have time to get into.

00:41:14.39
Matt
Yeah.

00:41:14.43
Neely Quinn
Maybe how you climb on a route on a rope is more beneficial.

00:41:19.67
Matt
Yeah, totally.

00:41:19.67
Neely Quinn
I’m not sure. Yeah.

00:41:20.89
Matt
It, like you said, it’s, I guess maybe let me, we don’t have to go fully into it, but I’ll, I’ll couch it by saying, I think a lot of times for myself included, we will write off failing due to like endurance or power endurance when it’s often a a skill failure that’s leading to that sensation.

00:41:21.07
Neely Quinn
And and we don’t have to go into that, but.

00:41:43.38
Matt
And so in general, and my for myself and for my

00:41:43.57
Neely Quinn
you.

00:41:47.25
Matt
coaching clients, I pretty much always steer people to trying to not separate out their energy system work from the skill of climbing on a rope as much as possible.

00:41:57.82
Neely Quinn
yeah yeah i hear you

00:41:59.10
Matt
So that I guess that’s like, you know, that’s a slightly more nuanced than just like, yeah, go climbing. But the higher skill option tends to be better.

00:42:05.69
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let’s talk about the lifestyle changes that made a difference for you before your big send.

00:42:13.94
Matt
Yeah. So honestly, I think this to me is what has made, like, if I just putting easy prey aside, I’m climbing so much better. I’m so much happier with my climbing right now than I was like a year ago.

00:42:28.89
Matt
Um, and I think that while these training training changes helped, they’re more a, they’re more continuations of

00:42:28.95
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

00:42:38.26
Matt
just like an ongoing process of my training and and and tweaks. they you know As much as I’d love there to be like this magic bullet training thing that you know I could do and it’ll just make me a different climber, like ah just it’s more about the consistency side of it. And so they don’t feel like they’ve been these like radical shifts in my climbing. and so But even though I felt a pretty radical shift in my climbing, I think it has to do more with some of the the lifestyle changes that I’ve made.

00:43:09.75
Matt
And so I know that’s like vague, but I kind of in reflecting on it, like I broke it down into three different things. um One was i’ve I’ve really put more of an emphasis on getting more daily movement in.

00:43:24.86
Matt
The other, the second is i have pretty dramatically reduced the amount I drink alcohol. And the third is I’ve lost a reasonably, at least in my view, substantial amount of weight.

00:43:38.81
Matt
um And so, yeah, I guess, should we go through those?

00:43:42.52
Neely Quinn
Yes, please.

00:43:43.67
Matt
Okay, so when I say more daily movement, would I mostly, if i and obviously all these are gonna like feed back and forth into each other, but um i’ve lived I’ve moved to Lander five years ago.

00:43:58.01
Matt
ah Before that, I lived in Jackson, Wyoming. I skied a lot. I mountain biked a lot. I just, like, it wasn’t just climbing. There were, like, all these other activities.

00:44:08.79
Matt
And I also used to work in restaurants where I, you know, initially I was bartending and then I was managing, where I’d be like, oh, cool, going to go to work tonight, like, get there at 3, get home at, you know, midnight or to 2 in the morning or whatever, depending on the restaurant, and I’m on my feet walking the entire time.

00:44:24.55
Neely Quinn
You get like 20,000 steps a night.

00:44:25.82
Matt
Yeah, exactly. Now I coach climbing, love it, get to climb, put more emphasis on my climbing, but I work from home at a desk. And it’s, I, and also in living in Lander, like there’s good biking.

00:44:43.51
Matt
You have to drive further for the skiing, like you drive two jacks and basically you go skiing. So I just was doing less of all that. And I think it just, without me really realizing it, there was this creep where I went from being, I was like, my the way I view myself is like, oh, I’m a fit, active person. like i do it And then I was like, well, i’m not really living that way anymore.

00:45:02.38
Neely Quinn
hmm.

00:45:02.49
Matt
um And like I got a whoop. and And when I first started wearing it, I was like, oh my God, like there are a lot of days where I’m like a thousand steps.

00:45:14.71
Matt
And I was like, that’s just like nothing. Like I’m, I gotta, I gotta move around more. So I put an emphasis on that, um, both in terms of doing more of some of those other activities again, and also just like steps are a reasonable, like stand in for that and easily measurable.

00:45:31.80
Neely Quinn
So what does that look like for you? Are you walking more? Are you driving to Jackson? Like, what are you doing?

00:45:38.01
Matt
Um, I started biking again, more both mountain bike and road bike. Uh, I take dogs for a walk a lot. Um,

00:45:46.84
Neely Quinn
lot more than you were.

00:45:48.60
Matt
Yeah, like we would just let our dogs out. And then like I’d take them, yeah, exactly, I’d just let them out.

00:45:54.20
Neely Quinn
like country folk. Yeah.

00:45:57.48
Matt
um And then I’d you know take them climbing kind of thing. But ah yeah, I wasn’t like a, oh, let me just like go take my dogs for a walk kind of thing. Like I just would never really, i wasn’t like a big walker. And I started doing that and really enjoying it. And I you know i even bought like a walking pad for my desk.

00:46:17.93
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:46:18.07
Matt
um And so, you know, that is add up all that. And I think it, I like just feel fitter. And like, I have an overall, like I have like a higher, just overall work capacity.

00:46:31.32
Matt
Like it doesn’t, you know, and I sort of the the best way I can describe that.

00:46:31.42
Neely Quinn
yeah

00:46:34.88
Matt
I know it sounds sort of vague is like, it’s not that I never biked or anything in, in those interim years, but i would, Like, don’t know how to put it.

00:46:48.93
Matt
I’d like go biking and it’d be like, even if it was like a pretty, you know, this isn’t like some like hundred mile ride or something like just a quick mountain bike lap kind of thing, like an hour total. I’d be like, with like mostly going downhill, I’d be like, oh, I got to recover from that.

00:47:04.02
Matt
And now I just, I’m like, oh yeah, that was fine. Like I don’t do it the day before I’m going to try to send, but I don’t like feel like it’s this like It’s just a, it’s like a nice thing to go do rather than like a ah workout now.

00:47:18.17
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that makes sense.

00:47:19.03
Matt
Yeah.

00:47:19.70
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:47:21.17
Matt
So that was the first one. ah Reducing drinking was another one. um

00:47:29.56
Neely Quinn
Yeah, you’re a beer guy.

00:47:31.16
Matt
Yeah. Love it. Basically don’t drink it anymore. um Yeah. No, ah like I still drink um and i’ve I’ve never been like a,

00:47:42.20
Matt
like I don’t think of myself as somebody who ever had like a problem with alcohol. um like I wasn’t just like drinking to excess all the time, like getting hammered. But I was like, I’d go climbing and I’d have a beer two.

00:47:56.86
Matt
ah I’d finish work, have a beer. like you know Some of that’s, it’s it’s it’s nice. and And it never really felt like it was impacting. my climbing.

00:48:08.54
Matt
Like I’ve never been somebody who like shows up at the cliff hungover. Um, but so, but I was probably averaging, you know, maybe slightly under two drinks a night kind of thing.

00:48:22.97
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:48:23.13
Matt
Um, If you know, like sometimes zero, but, and then sometimes more like in a social setting kind of thing. So yeah, I don’t know, 1.5 maybe or something.

00:48:34.23
Matt
And I started scaling that way back and now I’m, I’ve tried to not make it a thing. Like it’s not a like, oh, I don’t drink anymore, but I’m like, I’m probably more like a drink or two a week rather than a drink or two a day kind of thing.

00:48:54.94
Neely Quinn
When I got my whoop, I quit drinking because it just like tanked everything that I was doing.

00:49:01.24
Matt
Yeah, it does it does make it like pretty hard to ignore.

00:49:01.90
Neely Quinn
My sleep, your HRV. Yeah, obvious.

00:49:06.23
Matt
Yeah, exactly, you’re like, fuck.

00:49:06.33
Neely Quinn
Yeah, exactly.

00:49:07.86
Matt
Like I don’t want this to be true, but but it kind of is.

00:49:08.44
Neely Quinn
like Yeah. And now I just don’t even think about alcohol.

00:49:14.20
Matt
Yeah.

00:49:14.20
Neely Quinn
But is that, did that have an impact on you, the whoop?

00:49:18.10
Matt
Yeah, for sure, like seeing it quantifiable. um But you know I started wearing a whoop the end of last June, like it’s been about a year um that I’ve had a whoop. And ah I didn’t really start like consciously reducing my drinking until like December of this year.

00:49:38.47
Neely Quinn
Hmm. Yeah, it took a

00:49:40.77
Matt
Or like this past December. So like, you know, I was like, yeah, yeah, I see that if I drink that, you know, my recovery score and my sleep aren’t as good, but drinking part of my life. And it’s, you know, like it still is. Like, I don’t want it to like not be, but.

00:49:57.43
Matt
like not be by I just, it has become way less of a frequent one, I guess is the way to put it.

00:50:04.79
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And what did you notice from that? Like both in your body and on your whoop. Yeah.

00:50:12.38
Matt
Way better sleep, like that’s that’s a huge one. And this is one of the, well, like yeah, way better sleep, way better recovery. And so, The sleep is like pretty obvious, right? Like you just like wake up feeling more refreshed. And I like that feeling.

00:50:28.06
Matt
And then when I say recovery, i don’t just mean like, oh, I got a higher score on the loop. Like it’s not just gamified, but like the best way i can put it is Wolf Point’s like a big day.

00:50:40.08
Matt
So it’s like a big drive, a big ass hike, you know.

00:50:43.69
Neely Quinn
Lots of rattlesnakes to contend with.

00:50:44.76
Matt
yeah, it’s uphill both ways, literally. Cause it’s like, you park on one side of the Canyon. The cave is the the top of the other side of the Canyon. And so, you know, it’s down and up and then down and up. And I’d just be crushed.

00:50:58.74
Matt
Like I never climbed there two days on. And I’d always like be like, Oh man, that a big day yesterday. Like kind of feeling. And while I still don’t, want to climb there two days on, like I just, like, it it just doesn’t seem like the productive choice to me.

00:51:15.13
Matt
I have stopped drinking basically. Like i we’d always like hike back up and I’d have beer at the the truck kind of thing. um And now when I wake up, like not doing that, I’m like, my usual feeling, like I feel today is like, well, I could climb.

00:51:35.60
Matt
It’s better if I don’t. but i But I could, you know. um And that’s like pretty different than like, I basically just want to sit and not move while I recover all day today. So yeah, it’s in and that is like also transitioned to normally after six weeks of like hitting it hard at Wolf Point, I’m like, I’m exhausted.

00:51:55.99
Matt
i mean, I’ve been climbing it out there regularly now. It’s June 24th since mid-April. and I’m starting to get pretty tired, but like, I’m still like in with a chance of sending, uh, another hard route, you know?

00:52:07.96
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:52:09.30
Matt
So I think that, that like has definitely helped my just recovery overall. Um, yeah.

00:52:14.60
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that’s amazing. Cool.

00:52:18.15
Matt
Uh, and,

00:52:18.42
Neely Quinn
And then how did you lose 15 pounds and why? And I mean, 15 pounds is a considerable amount of weight, especially for a person who is already lean. So some people are going to be asking themselves, was this healthy for him?

00:52:32.66
Matt
Yeah. um Well, the so I think the two things we just talked about certainly helped. I started moving more and I started drinking less.

00:52:42.97
Neely Quinn
hmm.

00:52:46.01
Matt
um And so some of it was just, I was noticing that weight come off and and just like putting an emphasis on it. um And then we talked at one point, um because essentially like,

00:53:04.09
Matt
I weighed, but to put some numbers to it, I weighed myself last spring towards the end of the season and I had hit 180 pounds. um

00:53:11.96
Neely Quinn
And you’re five ten right? Mm-hmm.

00:53:13.88
Matt
Yeah. And i had, what I’ve basically, upon reflection, realized is like, I used to be like, I was like, oh, 162 like,

00:53:25.90
Matt
that’s, that’s just my weight with no like conscious maintenance. And then, you know, then, ah and this was, you know, rewinding like a bunch years, then it was 165, then it was 167, then shit. Now i’m in the, you know, 170s and it never really felt like it was impacting my climbing, but then, then it was 72, then 75 and then i was like,

00:53:48.50
Matt
wait a second like a hundred eighty is like a lot heavier than 162.

00:53:54.15
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:53:54.20
Matt
Like, and, and I was like, this is just not like, I think that I’m like, not as lean as I used to be. And I’m like, just measurably heavier. And so once some of it was just like, okay, I’m just gonna like, try to move more drink less, eat, you know, we, we pretty healthy,

00:54:16.09
Matt
like we grow a bunch of our own food. My partner, Lindsay’s an amazing cook. Like we put an emphasis on it already, but just kind of like, uh, I don’t know, being maybe just like trying by feel to be a little bit more diligent about it.

00:54:32.02
Neely Quinn
Thank

00:54:32.06
Matt
And that got, I was down to like, fluctuating between like 171 and like 174 kind of thing.

00:54:44.50
Matt
Um, and then I did, I was like, okay, I’d like to lose a little bit more weight. And so I started using like logging what I was doing on but what I was eating on my fitness pal to like counting calories and just to get a better sense of exactly what I was doing.

00:55:02.17
Matt
And that has helped quite a bit.

00:55:04.55
Neely Quinn
And what did you change?

00:55:04.72
Matt
Um,

00:55:08.15
Matt
Ironically, pretty little. i just had I just snacked too much. like I work from home. All the snacks are right over there.

00:55:20.36
Matt
It’s really easy to go grab them. and it i just like We’ve changed basically nothing about my like my normal breakfast, lunch, dinner program.

00:55:33.69
Matt
like I’ve just cut out the, oh, I’m going go grab some cookies. and And ironically, the like logging it seemed to be make it it used to feel really hard for me to do that. But simply having to like feel accountable to myself in logging it has made it like really easy not to.

00:55:53.69
Matt
And now it just like feels easy not to. and don’t know. like While I’ve put some emphasis on it, it has not felt like I’m dieting.

00:56:04.92
Neely Quinn
You don’t feel hungry without those snacks.

00:56:07.38
Matt
No, not really. ah think it was just habit, honestly. Because I’m like, oh, I’m working.

00:56:11.48
Neely Quinn
ah you’re You’re feeling like…

00:56:12.56
Matt
I want a break. like mean just Yeah, that’ll that’ll taste good.

00:56:17.40
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah.

00:56:17.91
Matt
You know? like and now I don’t know. Changing that association like seems to have… ah I don’t know I just honestly don’t really think about it as much anymore.

00:56:26.68
Neely Quinn
And you feel like you’re getting enough carbs or getting enough protein.

00:56:31.54
Matt
Yeah. I mean, i’m if I look at like what, and I know, you know, you can speak to the accuracy of like my fitness pal recommendations here.

00:56:43.93
Matt
I pretty much, I put a good emphasis on hitting the protein total that it recommends. And I’m usually, if I don’t hit it, I’m usually like pretty damn close. Uh, and

00:56:58.07
Matt
i have, If anything, I’ve tried to had to try to increase the amount of carbs I’ve eaten to get near anywhere near what it’s recommending.

00:57:09.40
Matt
Like, and then fats, I’m like, unless I try pretty hard, I’m always over.

00:57:15.32
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. My fitness pal typically is, I think it’s like 50% carbs, 20% protein, 30% fat or something.

00:57:24.53
Matt
Yep.

00:57:24.66
Neely Quinn
And I, for a person like you, who’s, you know, you’re hiking up to Wolf Point, you’re climbing, blah, blah, blah. 50 could be reasonable for you on some days, but generally on like a rest day, I’d be more like 40 or 35.

00:57:37.47
Matt
Yeah.

00:57:38.77
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:57:38.99
Matt
Yeah.

00:57:40.22
Neely Quinn
So I see why you’re trying hard to get those carbs, especially on rest days. And the protein is a little bit lower than I would recommend, except if you’re eating a high calorie diet.

00:57:44.98
Matt
Yeah.

00:57:51.45
Neely Quinn
and But for you, you want to be eating like the number of grams in protein that your goal weight is.

00:57:58.66
Matt
Right. Yeah. And it feels like that if I’m not always hitting that, but I’m like, I’m in the ballpark basically.

00:58:06.04
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And that’s great.

00:58:06.70
Matt
Um,

00:58:06.88
Neely Quinn
Even if you’re 20 grams under at your weight, you’re doing great.

00:58:07.26
Matt
Yeah.

00:58:09.98
Matt
Yeah. And, and I guess what’s like important throughout here is like,

00:58:16.54
Matt
you know, you, you basically recommended that I ignore my fitness pals, like calorie recommendation and instead like balance it based on like the output.

00:58:22.91
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

00:58:25.82
Matt
And if I’m being fully honest, uh, that felt like too much work. And so, I have just sort of like, I eat like 3000 calories a day and it just, it feels like I’m like not hungry.

00:58:38.90
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:58:42.18
Matt
I’m recovering well, climbing well. And it I’ve just been like, well, I don’t know. I I’m aware that there may be better ways I could like dial this in further, but it it has sort of felt like, uh, if it’s not broken, don’t fix it kind of thing.

00:58:57.59
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I totally agree with you. i will say one thing for the people listening.

00:58:59.48
Matt
Yeah.

00:59:02.10
Neely Quinn
Like when you make your own recommendations or you get recommendations from somebody else, you can put them into MyFitnessPal as your goals.

00:59:09.69
Matt
Yeah.

00:59:09.86
Neely Quinn
And then that’s what will show up. So you don’t have to do any extra work.

00:59:11.67
Matt
Right. Yeah.

00:59:13.59
Neely Quinn
But anyway, that’s great. I think that’s a really lovely way of losing weight. It sounds very intuitive and really sustainable.

00:59:21.94
Matt
Yeah. And I’ll fully admit, like, obviously we’ve worked together for a long time and I know you recommend like using, you’ve like, I’ve like been aware of my fitness pal forever. And I was always like, this just seems like a pain in the ass basically.

00:59:33.02
Neely Quinn
It is.

00:59:33.98
Matt
Yeah. But I’ve been pretty amazed at how like, It’s just easier than I thought it was going to be basically. um

00:59:40.92
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

00:59:41.69
Matt
Yeah. And, and it, I don’t plan on doing it forever by like any stretch of the imagination. But I feel like I’ve, if anything, it has just given me a clear insight into what I’m eating so I can stress less about it

00:59:58.78
Neely Quinn
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

01:00:00.28
Matt
Yeah.

01:00:01.07
Neely Quinn
It’s just educating you. And I liken it to training. Like you’re paying attention to what you’re doing for your training.

01:00:07.88
Matt
Yeah.

01:00:08.08
Neely Quinn
You’re paying attention to like how clean your water is. Why are we not supposed to pay attention on an app to what we’re eating?

01:00:13.73
Matt
Right.

01:00:16.33
Matt
Yeah.

01:00:16.60
Neely Quinn
Like, I know I don’t recommend that people do it forever either, but it’s just so educational. I’m doing it right now for myself because my body changed and I need different things now.

01:00:21.40
Matt
Yeah.

01:00:25.50
Matt
Yeah. yeah And it’s it’s, I mean, it’s just even, do yeah, more information tends to not, is seldom a bad thing as long as you’re like synthesizing it i guess and like drawing reasonable conclusions from it but it’s just like yeah just it’s been nice to not stress about it kind of deal yeah it’s

01:00:44.15
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that’s great. Are you still losing or are you just kind of maintaining now?

01:00:49.48
Matt
no i’m still going down yeah um

01:00:51.32
Neely Quinn
Okay. Yeah, and if 162 is your kind of fighting weight, then it seems like you could…

01:00:58.10
Matt
Yeah, I mean, my, I guess, so people, to give the full story here, my original, like, the first goal I put in was 168. And I was like, okay, cool, got that. and then I was like, okay, maybe I want, I want to get to 165, which i’ve I’ve hit, but I’m kind of like, you know, depending on the day, I’m like up or down from that, but a general trend of down. Um,

01:01:21.53
Matt
but my thinking is like less about like, oh I got to get to 162 and stay there. But I’ve sort of just like drawn this line in the sand for myself of like, I don’t want to care about my daily weight, but I’d like it to stay under 170.

01:01:38.52
Neely Quinn
that’s That’s so healthy.

01:01:39.58
Matt
Yeah.

01:01:39.88
Neely Quinn
I love that for you.

01:01:41.24
Matt
Yeah. Like it just seems like, and so I’ve been like, okay, well, if I can get to like you know, if I’m like below or around 165 and I’m just like, you know, with some monitoring, like not every day, but just like keeping a rough eye on it, then like I can go back to what I was doing before, which is like basically not caring.

01:02:03.61
Matt
ah And that’ll be nice.

01:02:07.79
Neely Quinn
Well, I don’t know if you’ll be able to go back to what you were doing, but.

01:02:11.45
Matt
Yeah. Well, fair enough. But although, I mean, that’s a reasonable segue. Like, when we’ve talked about these things, like like lifestyle changes, I think they’re often framed as like this giving something up.

01:02:27.19
Matt
I just don’t like genuinely don’t feel that way.

01:02:29.72
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:02:30.01
Matt
Like, I don’t feel like I’m like, oh, I’ve given up drinking or like, oh, I’m umm like really restricting what I’m eating.

01:02:34.29
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:02:40.38
Matt
I just, it like, just feels like I’ve done, the way I kind of view it for myself is there’s, I i have a, but the way I view myself is as an athlete and somebody who’s trying to really push themselves in a sport.

01:02:57.62
Matt
And I want my my, that’s like a big value of mine. So I want my daily habits to reflect those values. And I think they did for a long time.

01:03:10.04
Matt
the combination of sort of creep, you know, yeah you get away with a little bit more, you get away with a little bit more and just like ru getting older as well.

01:03:21.01
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

01:03:21.05
Matt
Like, i mean, there’s just no way, like I refuse to believe any other, like alcohol affects me way more now at 38 than it did at 24.

01:03:30.23
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:03:31.16
Matt
And so, you know, like the idea that like alcohol affected my sleep when I was in my like early 20s. I was like, sure, whatever. like I go to bed, i wake up, I feel fine. like what you know leave me you know Yeah, I don’t want to be hungover at the cliff, but like it just it’s just like doesn’t, it didn’t compute to me back then. And now it’s like, yeah, you can like see it on a loop, but I don’t.

01:03:56.12
Matt
I don’t, i don’t need the loop to tell me that it’s like abundantly obvious.

01:03:58.45
Neely Quinn
mm-hmm

01:03:59.81
Matt
I’m like, Oh, cool. I drank. And now it’s two in the morning and I’m wide awake laying in bed. Like this can’t be good for my sleep. Like, cause I’m not sleeping. Um, and so i think that what these changes,

01:04:17.55
Matt
they’re not something I feel like I’m going to I’m like having to constantly maintain right now as much as I just kind of like did an audit of like, and was like, Oh, some of my daily habits aren’t reflecting my values in the way that they may be used to, or that I thought they were.

01:04:36.22
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And you said something about that on your outline about changing your habit associations and habit stacking to sort of change those. Do you want to say a couple things about those?

01:04:44.31
Matt
Yeah. Yeah, sure. So,

01:04:50.84
Matt
the The association’s idea is like, goals of avoidance are really hard, because they require constant maintenance. right like My goal is to not eat ice cream.

01:05:03.22
Matt
Great, I’m currently not eating ice cream, and i’m in five minutes I have to still decide not to eat ice cream, and then you know later today I’m not eating ice cream, and then, well, if tonight I eat ice cream, shoot, I failed at the goal.

01:05:15.51
Matt
right

01:05:15.74
Neely Quinn
Okay.

01:05:16.38
Matt
um So they just they’re like kind of exhausting, and that’s why they seem to not work as well. And so I’ve just tried to, rather than say, like I’m not drinking or I’m not snacking or something like that, I’ve just tried to to like focus on the positive sides of those things.

01:05:34.14
Matt
So it’s like, well, cool, like I don’t want drink tonight because I’m I want to fucking sleep well. Like, you know, I don’t want to be awake in the middle of the night or, and I want to climb well tomorrow and I want to feel good. And like, I want to, you know, I don’t know, like I feel more clear headed, things like that.

01:05:52.15
Matt
Or like, Oh, I don’t, I’m not, not snacking. or like, I’m not just like, Oh man, I don’t get to snack. It’s more like, no, I, I’ve been feeling really good in my climbing. I’m like happier within, you know, like, uh,

01:06:07.58
Matt
like knowing that I’m do i’m like maintaining a weight that’s gonna help me in my sport more.

01:06:12.86
Neely Quinn
Yeah, or like with the walking, you’re not like, oh, I have to go on my walk. You’re like, I like getting outside and my dogs really like it. And so I’m going to go.

01:06:20.57
Matt
Yeah, totally. like And that was actually a big one, because initially I really didn’t like it. ah this is a This is the best example. It was hot. I really don’t like the heat. And it was July last year, and I was like, cool. like gonna start walking more like this sucks but my dog Hobbs like our my younger dog be like he was like struggling on a leash and we wanted to work on that and I was like well rather than being like cool I have to get this many steps in or something I was just like I really love ah love my dog I want to help him be a better dog

01:06:58.20
Matt
So I’ll do that. And then, and it’s like, yeah, it felt, it’s just like, and then once, and this is like the beauty of habits, right? It’s like, once they get going, then you’re like oh wait, actually this feels pretty good. Like to go on a walk during the middle of the day, like, you know, take a break. And instead of scrolling on Instagram, I like, you know, go for a 40 minute walk or something. and you’re like wow, that’s like, that’s really nice. And then suddenly it’s like, oh, now I have a new habit.

01:07:24.82
Matt
And I’m no longer like, oh, I have to get these steps in. like I’m just like, oh, like I’m living in a way that that just happens kind of deal.

01:07:33.96
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And ah so you’re definitely feeling all of this on the wall too?

01:07:42.36
Matt
For sure, yeah.

01:07:42.46
Neely Quinn
Wow.

01:07:43.77
Matt
I mean, I feel like a different rock climber this spring compared to last year. like There’s just no, i mean, sending aside, right? like I just like I’m climbing better and I feel more confident. And like part of what I think made last year hard, like last spring really hard for me, apart from just like, oh, I failed. Like I didn’t send was I was like, i just don’t even, it’s not only did I not send, like, I feel like I’m moving away from my goals, not towards them.

01:08:16.38
Matt
And so now I’m like, yeah, I mean, I’ve still put a lot of work into Okami. I’m, you know, I’m back to falling. I’m like my all time high point. I feel really close. I’ve done good low points, like, et cetera, et cetera. Like, it’s not like, oh, I’m just like smashing every goal route and site kind of thing.

01:08:31.93
Matt
But I just like, I’m no longer like, well, I hope I get lucky kind of thing. I just, I sort of feel like i’m like, oh, well, I don’t like deserve to send, but the route doesn’t owe me anything, but I feel like I’ve like taken the steps to give myself a chance. And I can i can like feel that in my climbing.

01:08:51.58
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. That’s a more a fulfilling place to be where you’re like, I’ve done what I can do. Like the I’ve controlled the controllables.

01:08:59.27
Matt
Yeah.

01:09:01.69
Matt
Yeah, like, you know, when we were setting up doing this, recording this podcast, you know, I said to you, like, hopefully we’ll be talking about two sends, not one.

01:09:10.88
Neely Quinn
Mm hmm.

01:09:10.95
Matt
And like, yeah, ah you know, I didn’t send yesterday. I tried. um And I might not send this year. And like, I’d really like this spring. I’d really like to.

01:09:22.65
Matt
ah But if I don’t, like, I’m kind of okay with it in the sense that, like i just don’t i feel like i had a chance it was really hard last spring to feel like cool i put a lot of work into this route he’s great but i realistically i like i really didn’t have a chance and and then you’re like oh am i just wasting my time like what am i doing here you know um and i felt like i was like moving away from that goal not towards it and now it’s like yeah if i don’t send this uh

01:09:55.67
Matt
This spring, I’ll try in the fall and hopefully send them, you know, like, and i I don’t know, it’s been helpful to like,

01:10:05.50
Matt
feel like i can like believe that I’m gonna make progress again. And I know that’s, you know, but.

01:10:08.79
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And do you have these new tools that you’ve developed for yourself where like you’re going to South Africa for two months. You’re going come back.

01:10:19.37
Neely Quinn
You’re going have some time before the season starts again and you know what to do with yourself.

01:10:24.18
Matt
Yeah, totally. Yeah.

01:10:25.32
Neely Quinn
Yeah.

01:10:25.62
Matt
that And that’s super helpful, obviously. um But yeah, just i think the overall like. if you If you ask me to like sum it all up, I think I’d say that like pretty happy with where where my climbing is at now. I was pretty upset with where it was at before.

01:10:42.74
Matt
And it’s like you said, it’s nice to have these sort of training ideas. and And hopefully these served me for a long time. it’s ah you know I’m sure that I’m going to have to update things in my approach. like you know You can’t just keep doing the same thing forever and expecting it to work.

01:10:56.09
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:10:57.85
Matt
But it it does feel i’m like, okay, this this works for me. and I know what I’m doing. It’s not just like, cool, I got to re you know go back to the drawing board kind of kind of deal like you’re saying. And i just feel like I’m like, I’ve made, like we said, these lifestyle changes that like, I have no plans to depart from.

01:11:19.58
Matt
And they’re, it’s like, that’s because they feel good rather than feeling like I’m choosing, I’m having to choose to do them constantly.

01:11:30.68
Neely Quinn
right you’re like you’re restricting something h yeah that’s good I’m really happy for you yes you seem brighter and happier and it’s yeah it’s good to see you like this not that you’re ever a downer but I do remember very clearly last year you being like I don’t know what’s wrong with me but I suck at climbing and so this is like such a great turnaround

01:11:32.50
Matt
Yeah, exactly. um And yeah, so yeah. of it Thanks. Me too.

01:11:53.66
Matt
Yeah,

01:11:56.79
Matt
no, for sure. And like, yeah, i think, um, it obviously feels good, like you’re saying, but I think that the, it’s not the, it’s also like important for me to say, like, that’s not the first time I’ve like had bad seasons or felt like I’ve like had to make a change in my climbing kind of thing. Like, I think anyone who does this for a long time, like there are ups and downs to it.

01:12:21.05
Matt
Um,

01:12:21.14
Neely Quinn
Yeah, you’re constantly evolving.

01:12:22.81
Matt
Yeah. and And so what I hope people take from this is less of like a, you need to edge lift before you board climb or like you need to, you know, get a loop or count calories or you know, get certain number of steps in or anything like that. But it’s like, if you really care about your performance, I think it’s it’s good to look at it from i a multitude of angles.

01:12:49.29
Neely Quinn
Mm-hmm.

01:12:49.88
Matt
I think it it could have been really easy for me to go All right, I’m like bad at crimping. I gotta all work on my finger strength. This is a resistant, easy prey a resistant route. I need to improve my resistance.

01:13:01.78
Matt
And like, could have made all the training changes. and Maybe I may or may not have sent, you know, we can never know kind of thing. But I, by, I really do feel like by looking at me like, okay, these are training tweaks I can make, but like, what’s my overall behavior like, like my overall health, my overall daily habits, like, are, am I like sort of living in a way that I is in line with like what I want out of the sport,

01:13:29.38
Matt
It’s like, well, you can do both basically. Like, i think we often frame a lot of these discussions as like an either or, but it’s like, it can definitely be both. And like, you can train well, while also addressing your habits, right? Like um they they don’t, none of this has to be like mutually exclusive.

01:13:50.42
Matt
ah

01:13:50.52
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Life lessons learned.

01:13:56.89
Matt
Yeah. So it’s liked.

01:13:58.30
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And if people want to work with you as their coach, are you taking new clients right now?

01:14:05.50
Matt
I am taking new clients. um And sort of like we talked about here, I’d be happy to help people make technical training changes. We can, you know, we can talk Seth’s reps, we can talk session design, all those things, but I think we can also work on, um you know, evaluating your climbing from different perspective.

01:14:27.51
Matt
You know, things we didn’t talk about here just because, I don’t think they were issues for me, is but that I work on a lot of people with are things like, okay, like how do we work on roots?

01:14:38.26
Matt
Like the tactical side of it or, or even just like, Hey, let’s, let’s work on like,

01:14:39.64
Neely Quinn
yeah

01:14:44.41
Matt
what we prioritize in terms of like, Oh, should you be in the gym training or should you get out and try the route? Like sort of setting up your year in a way to, to facilitate time to work on the things you really want to.

01:14:57.08
Matt
Um, and so it, we can, you know, we can definitely work on the nuts and bolts training thing side of things.

01:14:57.27
Neely Quinn
yeah

01:15:03.95
Matt
Um, but we can also just kind of work on, you know, helping you make other sort of lifestyle shifts that, that will help your performance as well.

01:15:11.71
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And you can find Matt’s services at trainingbeta.com slash Matt. And he has a few different options. So I really appreciate this conversation. i found it really intriguing and i love learning about what you’ve been doing for yourself, especially as you get older, like you’re saying. i think this is probably inspiring for a lot of people.

01:15:37.37
Neely Quinn
So thank you. Have so much fun in South Africa. And yeah, thanks.

01:15:44.18
Matt
Yeah, appreciate it. Hopefully people enjoy. And yeah, thanks for having me on the show again.