John Brosler on Training for Speed Climbing
Date: October 14th, 2020
About John Brosler
John Brosler is a 23-year-old climber who specializes in competitive speed climbing. He was featured in the highly entertaining and educational 2018 Reel Rock film “Up to Speed.” John is a sponsored climber, and according to his bio page on La Sportiva, these are some of his proudest accomplishments:
1. 6-time Open Speed National Champion
2. National speed climbing record holder
3. 2018 Pan-Amercian Speed Champion
4. 2019 U.S. Overall Team Member
5. Sending The Vice, 8B/V13 in Rocklands, South Africa
Pretty impressive, right? That’s why I asked him to be on the show to talk about how he trains for speed climbing. He clearly takes his sport very seriously and he personally piqued my interest in speed climbing, so I was honored that he agreed to this interview.
NOTE: This interview was recorded on March 19, 2020 in the beginning of the COVID lockdowns, so some logistics we talk about may not line up with what’s happening right now. The training information is still as relevant as ever, though.
John Brosler Interview Details
- Speed Climbing 101: A primer on the sport
- Exactly how he trains day by day for speed climbing
- How his diet affects his training and performance
- Whether or not he climbs outside
- Why it sometimes comes down to luck who wins
- His thoughts on the Olympic and World Cup format
John Brosler Interview Links
- Instagram: @johnbrosler
- Rent or buy the Reel Rock film “Up to Speed”
- Article on GymClimber.com by John called “Speed Climbing 101”
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Photo Credit
Photo by Eddie Fowke at Circuit Climbing
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Transcript
Neely Quinn
Welcome to the Training Beta podcast where I talk with climbers and trainers about how we can get a little better at our favorite sport. I’m your host, Neely Quinn. And I want to remind you that the podcast is actually an offshoot of a website I created all about training for rock climbing, which is Trainingbeta.com. Over there, you’ll find tons of blog posts on all kinds of topics, tons of training programs for all kinds of climbers, as well as nutrition services and personal training services. So definitely check that out at nutrition — So definitely check that out at Trainingbeta.com/programs.
Alright, so on to a tiny little update on me. I told you last time that I’m struggling with a wrist injury, it is not getting better from the PRP. And I’ll probably end up having surgery in November. I will keep you updated on that. But I am learning a lot about wrist injuries, that’s for sure. And I am shopping for new hobbies because I can’t do anything with my hands, which sucks a lot. I’m thinking about taking a class online because it turns out that climbing takes a lot of time of your week. And so that’s a lot of time. I’m just like: What am I supposed to be doing right now? So anyway, wish me luck on that. And I will move on now to the podcast episode at hand.
So I’ve been telling you for months that I had this episode with John Brosler sort of stashed away. We recorded this interview on March 19, or something of 2020. So it was like right when all of the lockdowns started happening. So this conversation is gonna be a little bit dated in that way. Because a lot of gyms are open now. And at the time the gyms were closed. And so you’ll have to forgive us for that. But all of the things that he talks about in this episode about his training for speed climbing, are still totally relevant. And he did such a good job in this interview explaining speed climbing and explaining how he trains for it and why. So I’m not gonna try to explain it myself. I’m just gonna hand it over to John Brosler. And you can find him on Instagram @JohnBrosler if you want to check out more about him. So without further ado, here’s John, and I’ll talk to you on the other side.
Alright, welcome to the show, John. Thanks so much for talking to me today.
John Brosler
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. So for anybody who doesn’t know who you are, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
John Brosler
Yeah, my name is John Brosler. I am a professional speed climber. I live in Salt Lake City. I grew up in Dallas on Team Texas. And I’m just out here in Salt Lake training for just perpetually the next the next big competition.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Right. And you have had a pretty awesome career, right?
John Brosler
Yeah, yeah, I’ve had a lot of success. I’m a six time national champion in open. I’m a Pan American champion. Let’s see, I was able to compete on the US overall team last year and go to the Olympic Qualifying event in Hachioji; that was the World Championships. And I didn’t quite qualify for the Olympics, but I was able to like go through that whole process. And it was really pretty awesome. And I feel lucky to have been able to do it.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Well, congrats on all of your success. It’s really exciting.
John Brosler
Yeah, thank you.
Neely Quinn
And you were in a film, right?
John Brosler
Yeah, I was I was in the film Up to Speed that was in Real Rock 13. And, yeah, that was that was a really cool experience. It was like the first big amount of like, media attention that I had ever gotten. So it was really cool to like, kind of bring the sport to the climbing community and just in general, inform people about it, because it is kind of a niche thing. And I think it’s really awesome to be able to educate people in a fun way, like that. filmed it, because it’s such a big part of the Olympics this year as well.
Neely Quinn
Totally. Yeah, I mean, for me, I didn’t know much about speed climbing until that film. And you guys really did make it so entertaining that I was like, Oh, wow, I was really intrigued. And I think that’s what happened to the rest of the world too, who saw that.
John Brosler
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, it is very different than like I think people’s impression of speed climbing like like the the film that was in the most recent Real Rock though with Tommy and Alex speedclimbing the nose. I think that was like kind of what most people at least in the climbing community would think of when they thought of speed climbing, but Outside of the climbing community, I think what the competitive side of the sport is with like the standard route. And all of that are what non climbers think of when they think of speed climbing. So it was pretty cool to like, kind of merge the two worlds a little bit for the first time, or one of the first times.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So let’s talk about speed climbing, actually. I have a lot of questions for you. But why don’t you tell me about how you got into it?
John Brosler
Um, well, I grew up in Dallas on Team Texas, the competitive youth team out there. And it was just something that was really heavily emphasized in training for like the USA climbing Youth Competition circuit. And once I started, I just never really stopped, I was improving really fast. And that got me really motivated. And it just like kept kind of. Yeah, and it just kind of escalated from there. And then when the standard route was introduced, that was really when I started to, like, be really psyched, and I was obsessing over like each individual move and how I could get it as perfect and as efficient as possible. And I’ve just been doing that for the past eight years or so on this on this one route. And yeah, it’s been, it’s been really motivating to just push my limits in such a measurable way on this thing that it’s been in my life for so long.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And when did you start? How old are you?
John Brosler
I’m 22. I turn 23 tomorrow, actually.
Neely Quinn
Oh, happy almost birthday.
John Brosler
Thank you. And I must have started when I was 13, I think. Yeah, so nine years.
Neely Quinn
Okay. Yeah. And that’s a new thing for comp climber. Like, you’re so young, that speed climbing was really pushed on you guys. Right? Because of the comp style had changed?
John Brosler
It was. Yeah, yeah.
Neely Quinn
And what you said that when you first started, there wasn’t the route that everybody uses?
John Brosler
No, well, for a long time, it was just like a kind of a random jug, jug route. And the route that everybody uses now, you don’t actually start competing on until you’re in youth B, so like, either 13 or 14 years old. And so before I was that old, I would just compete on just like a, it was weird. It was different every time. But it was like, I mean, it’s like a 5.6-5.7 climb. So it’s like, you don’t have to like look it out; really plan very much. Well, actually, I shouldn’t say that, you should plan but it wasn’t like, you compete and train on the same route. It was just a little kid route, basically.
Neely Quinn
And then once you’ve got what you just sort of graduated to the standardized route, you were like, oh, I’m assuming you were like, well, this is kind of fun. It’s not because it’s a little bit harder, right?
John Brosler
Yeah, it’s harder, the moves are bigger. And so it doesn’t really suit younger climbers who are shorter that easily anyway. And it just like became part of a training routine, just like speed climbing on like random jug wall was part of my training routine. And instead of like trying a different jug wall every time I guess, in practice, it was just alright, go climb on the standard route.
Neely Quinn
And so what made you more attracted to that than what most of the other kids I’m assuming we’re probably doing, which was bouldering and sport?
John Brosler
Well, I still bouldered and sport climbed a lot, and I still do. So it’s not like I completely eliminated those from my training. But I was definitely the most psyched, I’d say, on speed climbing, because I think I was just improving at it really quickly. And it just like motivated me to like find out where my own limits were as like, as like the same as anyone who does any sport, you know, like, the biggest motivator is like finding how far you can push yourself. And I think that, of course, I was motivated in that way in sport climbing and bouldering too, but I think I was more motivated in speed climbing for whatever reason, I can’t even really explain it probably in the same way.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. I just wonder like, I feel like there has to be some personality trait about you. That it’s, it’s very different. Like, I understand that you’re still bouldering and sport, but you’re also putting a lot of time into this one singular route. And it seems like you have to have like a lot of discipline and motivation to just climb on that one route for a lot of your training time. Is that right?
John Brosler
I think so. I think what it is, is I don’t really think about it as oh, I can only climb on one route. This is frustrating. It’s just like it like that’s just how the Sport is. And yeah, it’s different from sport climbing and bouldering. But I mean, it’s not, I don’t think about it is like being not climbing, I just think about it as it is speed climbing. And that’s how you get better at this sport is to try to like, be as efficient as possible and train in this way. And I think yeah, it’s like it kind of just turns into the same thing is like, I’m motivated by finding out where my where my own potential is.
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
John Brosler
Yeah.
Neely Quinn
So tell me about your evolution as a speed climber, like, where did you begin? And what kind of times are you doing now? And like, how do you feel about it now?
John Brosler
Um, let’s see, I, well, I guess I started when I was like, 13. And I actually don’t remember my first time on the route at all. But for the longest time, at least in the US, there, there are two versions of it kind of there’s like a 10 meter version. And then there’s a 15 meter version. And they’re both official, but they’re just so like different gyms can have it that are different heights, and they can accommodate like either the 10 meter or the 15 meter. And for the longest time, in the US, we only really had to worry about the 10 meter wall. And at the international competitions, they always use the 15 meter wall. And so on the 10 meter wall, when I was first starting out, like within the first two years, I was probably in like the 10 second range – 12 second range. And I guess since then, we’ve evolved to the 15 meter wall. And right now I’m on the 15 meter wall and hovering at around six seconds.
Neely Quinn
It’s pretty fast, John.
John Brosler
Yeah. A lot of runs. A lot of practice, for sure.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Okay. Tell me about that. Like, how does that compare on a world level?
John Brosler
So let’s see, the world record is 5.48 seconds. And an Iranian speed climber has it, his name is Reza Alipour Shenazandifard, and let’s see to make to make finals at a World Cup, you have to be running pretty, at least pretty consistently 6.0 something. But there are probably 20 to 30 people in the world who can run under six seconds. And they only take 16 to any given World Cup final round. And so the margin is very, very small. And the competition is really, really tight. And so it’s kind of just luck, if anything.
Neely Quinn
You think? Why is that?
John Brosler
Well just because the margin is so small, sometimes it really does come down to luck. Because sometimes if like the cutoff for a final round is like, is 16 people, you can have somebody who gets like a 6.05 in 16. And somebody who gets like a 6.06 and 17. And at that point, like that’s, that’s the same round essentially. And sometimes it even breaks down to the 1000s of a second. And —
Neely Quinn
Like swimming, Olympic swimming.
John Brosler
Yeah, it’s close, it’s really, really close. But and then even compared to swimming the route is so much shorter. And it that — with that small of a margin, like it kind of gets to a point where you you can’t really control like, Okay, I’m gonna go exactly, what 1/100 of a second faster than this guy, so like…
Neely Quinn
It’s true. Well, that’s what I was gonna ask you is like, what do you feel is in your control? What are the variables that you have any say over?
John Brosler
So. That’s a really good question. Obviously, I mean, in order to feel the most in control, or I’d say when I feel the most in control, it’s when I’m not necessarily trying to go as fast as I can, but trying to go trying to be like as smooth as possible on the route. And that’s just so like, because sometimes if you go really, really fast, you can get out of control on your body goes like every which way. And if you can run a smooth like quality lap, the level of consistency is much higher, I think. And so that’s like, that’s what most people do in the competition’s like even guys that are going for the world record. They’re probably not running like as fast as they physically can. But they’re, it’s like controlled chaos, I guess, you know.
Neely Quinn
Right.
John Brosler
Like they are holding back a little bit so they can hit every mark and everything like that. Because the because the margins are so small, you can’t like have one run that turns into something. You can’t have one run that’s different from another it has to feel exactly the same every single time. And so if you slip or if you’re like, a couple centimeters off on one of the holds or less than that even it can affect your entire climb.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Right. It seems like this is the kind of thing where you’d have to optimize everything outside of the actual six seconds stir on the wall. Like your sleep, your nutrition, like how? Because it’s, it seems like it’s pretty much a power game, like, how much power do I have to spare? And it seems like sleep and nutrition would have a lot to do with that. But what do you think about that?
John Brosler
Yeah, I mean, definitely it as with any, as with any elite athlete, in any sport, like sleep and nutrition are super important. I try as hard as I can to get my eight hours every night. And if I have a competition abroad, then I try to get there as early as I can, just so I can adjust a little bit. Or if I can’t get there super early, I’ll try to adjust my sleep schedule at home. So the time changes isn’t quite as shocking for me.
Neely Quinn
How much earlier do you get there?
John Brosler
Let’s see, ideally, like, four days in advance.
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
John Brosler
But um, obviously, that’s not always an option. I usually like to have at least like one day to rest and recover. And before. So like, I’ll get there, I’ll have a full day of rest, and then you compete the next day in is probably the closest I would ever cut it for competition abroad.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And do you want to talk about — I was gonna ask you about your nutrition anyway, at the end. But do you want to talk about that? Like, how do you feel yourself? And how do you recover?
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely. Let’s see, I don’t, I don’t think too too much about exactly what I’m eating. Other than making sure I’m getting all of my food groups. I try to generally stay away from junk food. But I love pasta. I love Italian food. And so all my friends know that about me. And it’s great, because I mean, you get your carbs from your pasta, then you can put whatever veggies and protein in there that you want. So it always really kind of turns into a pretty balanced meal. And that’s one of the reasons I like it so much.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, okay.
John Brosler
And so that’s one of the big things that I love eating. I love salmon, because it’s so nutritious, and it’s pretty lean. And that’s, it just tastes great. I love it.
Neely Quinn
But what did you have for breakfast this morning?
John Brosler
I had oatmeal with brown sugar, and blueberries and almonds.
Neely Quinn
Okay
John Brosler
And yeah, it was good. For breakfast, a lot of the time I’ll have a protein shake. And I’ll put just like a banana in there and have it with like coconut or almond milk and put some spices in there to make it taste good and some nuts. And on a training day, that’s usually my breakfast, actually. But I enjoy oatmeal as well. And of course I enjoy fatty breakfast like french toast and pancakes. If I’m taking a rest day, I’m just like, I have to fuel my body. I’m gonna eat whatever I want.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Right.
John Brosler
Yeah. But yeah, I think the main thing is just paying attention to make sure I get all of my food groups, and I’m not really eliminating anything. I have protein shakes, either, actually, at least in the morning and after training, just so I can make sure I’m getting enough of that. And otherwise, I just eat a large amount of fruits and vegetables and grains. So I make sure that I’m getting all of the vitamins and other nutritional things that I need.
Neely Quinn
What’s the standard lunch for you?
John Brosler
Standard — oh lunch is hard. I hate lunch, honestly. Because it’s usually leftovers. So pasta from the night before, or sometimes I’ll just scrounge up something that I have at home. Like I’ll have a bagel with an egg and avocado and some veggies or something where — there’s a taco place right next door I live that I love so and that’s relatively healthy as well. And so yeah, I wouldn’t say there’s like a standard lunch that I eat. But I do try to stay as healthy as I can.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously it’s working. And I’m I I’m fascinated by what people eat. That’s why I’m asking these detailed questions. And thank you for sharing. It seems like what you’re doing is fueling properly and getting enough carbs and getting enough protein and all of the things and that’s what it would take like for a power athlete and a strength athlete like yourself, you have to have those carbs and so it’s cool that you’re fueling yourself properly.
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely. I just like I make sure that I’m not eating too too much junk food and that I’m eating just like a large amount of everything that I need. And I do always eat when I’m hungry. I don’t try to like diet too, too much in that way. Just because I know my body needs it as a strength and power athlete.
Neely Quinn
Right. Yeah. Okay, I think we’ve covered nutrition, I might have a couple other questions for you later on it. But I do want to get to more of the nitty gritty about speed climbing, because I think that there are probably some people who aren’t really sure how it fits into the comp scene, how much time you’re spending on it and things like that. So let’s do sort of a speed climbing 101 for people. What do you think about that?
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely, um, I guess we’ll start out with like, the format of the competitions. So basically, you get two practice runs and two qualifier runs, and they rank you based on time. It’s out of — it’s like the best of those two runs. And then after that, they’ll take the top 16 people and go into like a head to head elimination round. And that’s where it gets really, really tricky. And the margin for error is really, really small, because instead of getting two runs to post your best time, you only get one, it’s just a race. And so it adds like it adds a lot of stress. And it adds like a whole new kind of element to speed climbing other than who can just go the fastest it is who can perform well under pressure as with any competition, I think, but I feel like that’s really, really emphasized a lot in the head to head like elimination knockout format that they use.
Neely Quinn
Because it would be different if you were just if they were just like, Okay, ready, John, go, and nobody else was next to you.
John Brosler
Yeah, yeah, it’d be way it’s way way different. Because you have the, the mental aspect of like, having somebody climbing next to you and actually racing them, along with having to perform your own personal best in most cases, in order to have a good enough run to move on to the next round,
Neely Quinn
Right. Like balancing, staying surrounded with, like, making sure you beat the guy next to you.
John Brosler
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so the the mental aspect of the competition, I, is really, really, really heavily emphasized. And I’d argue at least for me, it’s, it seems way more present than it does in like a sport climbing or bouldering round for me, because at least in a lead or bouldering round, it’s just like you and the wall and you can, it’s easier to like kind of isolate yourself and isolate your own performance. But in speed climbing, it’s much harder to do that. Because the your result directly depends on the person who you’re essentially watching climb next to you.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, you just have to like switch gears when you’re out there.
John Brosler
Yeah, you really do. And so in order to — my personal strategy is like, again, to just try to isolate myself from my own performance as much as I can. Because like, you can’t control what they do as in lead climbing and bouldering as well, but it just like it makes it a little bit harder. Just knowing that what they do in this moment right now affects your result as well.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, totally. I can’t even imagine I’d probably throw up every time I walk up to the wall.
John Brosler
Yeah, it’s it’s nerve racking for sure. Actually, ib combined nationals in January, I felt exactly the same. Even just in qualifiers. I was just so so nervous for it for for some reason. But uhm…
Neely Quinn
Well, have you been coached on that? It — first of all, do you have a coach right now?
John Brosler
Right now? No, I’m pretty much self coached. I work with Josh Larson, who’s the US team coach. But as far as like speed climbing and training goes, I’m mostly on my own.
Neely Quinn
Aren’t other countries like, doesn’t Raza and a bunch of other countries have coaches and to train with a team and all that?
John Brosler
Yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s the thing is that in other countries, the speed climbing part of their, like, International Climbing Federation, is much more developed. And they’ve been doing it for longer. And they actually have like, a team, like a national team that can I guess, like, while I’m talking, I’m thinking of Russia as an example, that they’ve been a powerhouse in speed climb for so so long. And they consistently have training camps with their national speed climbing team, and as is the case with a lot of other mostly like Eastern European countries. But in the US, the sport isn’t quite big enough to where we have that really. And so of course, there are a few really fast athletes from in the US, but opportunities to train together are few and far between. And so it’s just kind of an on your own thing.
Neely Quinn
Do you think it would — would you prefer to train in a team with a coach?
John Brosler
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. For the same reasons that I mean, you would want to train with a team and a coach in lead climbing and bouldering, as well. And it’s not like a train alone all the time. I’m lucky enough that Kira and Nathaniel and a lot of the other US team and like elite Olympic level athletes live in Salt Lake and are pshyced on speed climbing. So I do train with them and speed climb with them and with some other locals in Salt Lake that are psyched on the sport and are training for the competitions. But it would, of course, be really helpful to have like, an elite level team that’s as motivated as I guess I am or motivated enough to, like almost fully specialize in the sport to train with and just push you that little extra bit.
Neely Quinn
Do you think we’ll get there?
John Brosler
Yeah, I think eventually, especially after this Olympics comes, then I think the sport is going to grow a ton, it’s going to get a lot more attention, a lot more support from the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee, and hopefully, grow the sport, that way. Starting from like a grassroots level as people and youth climbers get more and more psyched on it.
Neely Quinn
And tell me about your performance. Like, how did you do this season? And are you going to the Olympics? I know the answer to this question, but let’s —
John Brosler
Let’s see; this past World Cup season, I didn’t perform quite as well as I wanted to, I made a couple final rounds in World Cups. My best result was an eighth place finish at the World Cup in Chamonix. And then I finished in 14th in speed at the World Championships in Hachioji as well.
Neely Quinn
Nice.
John Brosler
Yeah, thank you. And unfortunately, it wasn’t enough to qualify for the Olympics. But I felt lucky to be like with the US team that traveled together and be on the overall team that had the capacity and the resources to go to the competitions and travel and train. And it was really a cool experience. And I’m lucky to have had it and hopefully looking forward to having similar seasons with the same group of people in the future.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. And tell me about the format of World Cups. You have to do to — do you have to do sport and bouldering?
John Brosler
Yeah, Yeah, I did. So I only did a couple of the lead World Cups. But it’s, it’s really tricky doing speed climbing and another discipline, especially lead. Because sometimes the schedule is such that speed climbing is after the other round. So if you’re a speed specialist, you don’t necessarily want to be tired for your discipline. Whereas like, if you’re a lead climbing or a bouldering, specialist, then speed climbing, you can kind of just you can kind of conserve your energy in a lot of situations.
I’m not saying that’s the case for every lead climbing and boulder specialist that is doing speed to compete in the combined and in the Olympic format. But generally, it’s easier to do speed first, I think in training and in competitions, because you’re kind of using a different energy system than you would be especially in lead climbing. It’s like It’s like more power based versus lead climbing is much more endurance based, and you’re recruiting your muscles in a different way. And so if you can be less tired, I think the best way to be less tired for lead climbing and bouldering is to do speed climbing first. And if there’s a competition where speed climbing is not first in the schedule, then it really kind of throws you for a loop a little bit.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. So how do you deal with that?
John Brosler
As best you can. I mean, you can’t, you can’t really change the competition schedule. So you just try to make sure you’re recovering properly after each round, sleeping, eating well. And kind of just making the best out of the situation.
Neely Quinn
Is that the same in a bouldering World Cup where the bouldering goes first and then speed?
John Brosler
Yeah, it’s the same. It’s not quite, at least in my opinion, and in my experience, it’s not quite as bad as having to lead climb right before you speed climb. Because the energy systems in bouldering and speed climbing are a little bit more similar and they complement each other as far as fitness goes. But I mean, the principle is still there. Definitely.
Neely Quinn
So would you say that when you’re competing and you’re doing a bouldering round or a lead round, are you conserving? Are you not giving it your 100% effort?
John Brosler
Um, I think it really depends. At the World Cups when you’re maybe competing in multiple rounds in the same day, and depending on like where your expertise is and where your training has been leading up to the competition. You might want to conserve a little bit of energy in lead climbing, if you haven’t been training quite as much as you have been speed climbing. But it’s really, it really just kind of depends on the athlete and how that preparation for that specific athlete has been leading up to the competition.
And so I’d say it. I’m lucky enough that at least in the lead World Cups I did speed climbing was first and then I could really focus on lead afterwards, and not really have to conserve too too much energy. But at the World Championships, it was not quite as good because speed climbing was last in the schedule. Which was tricky, but also there was only generally one discipline per day. And so you would only have to compete in one — at least I would only have to compete in one round per day and maybe even have a rest day before the speed round.
Neely Quinn
Oh, that’s that’s different, right?
John Brosler
It is different. But that’s just because it was the World Championships, and it’s a bigger competition. And they’re doing all three disciplines at once versus trying to cram two disciplines into a weekend. And the whole thing was like a it was like a 10 day competition with all three disciplines plus, like a combined qualifier and the final at the end.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it seems like watching those things, you guys are just exhausted by the end of it.
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely. And skin, too. People are the if you were to see any of the combined finalists, at the end of the day, their skin more than anything just looked visibly trashed. And then you could just assume that their bodies would be just as trashed as their as their skin would be too, so…
Neely Quinn
Yeah. I mean, do you think that’s ridiculous that you guys are being made to do this?
John Brosler
I mean, in some ways, yes. But at the same time, like I can’t, I don’t really have a better idea. To be honest. Like if they’re if they’re going to combine all three disciplines in the Olympic format, then like, yeah, I think they did it the best way they could have, and it’s up to the athlete to train and prepare in order to execute at that level.
And yeah, it’s just grueling, but I mean, at the same time, it’s like, what we sign up for, and we know going into it, and we can complain all we want, but it’s not going to change, and we’re going to compete anyway, so…
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it’s been really interesting seeing the athletes really embrace it. Because in the beginning, everybody was like, What is this? You know, how are we supposed to train for this even and, and now you see, like Brooke and Kira, and everybody speed climbing, which they never really focused on before. And so it seems like everybody’s just like, yes, this is what we’re doing.
John Brosler
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think, of course, at the beginning, when like the format was first announced, it was kind of a shock to everybody, because it’s just not what anyone had in mind when they would have thought of, like sport climbing in the Olympics. But But um, I think people got used to it a little bit more than started to embrace the fact that it’s in the Olympics. And it’s cool. And people are psyched to try to go for it. And yeah, and it was interesting, because it kind of leveled the playing field a lot to where it’s like, I’m not saying that this comparison is like, perfect, but like you would have some of the best lead climbers and some of the best boulders competing together in a situation where they wouldn’t normally have otherwise. And so it you could kind of like see where their skill set was compared to each other.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that is kind of cool.
John Brosler
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Neely Quinn
Well, because it literally is like having a sprinter racing something against a marathoner, right.
John Brosler
Yeah, yeah, I guess so. Yeah, but that’s just, that’s just how they decided to do it. And people are psyched enough to train for it as well. And the training is tricky, for sure. But well, it’s also cool, because the way that the scoring works, you multiply your ranks together in order to get a score and, and like a lower number wins, basically. But if you have a ranking of one, like if you’re the best in that discipline, or if you’re a specialist in that discipline, that helps a lot. And so, a lot of the people that have the best shot aren’t necessarily the best all around competitors. The fact that they are the best in one discipline really shines even in this combined scoring format. And so it’s not it’s not like you’re not getting some of the best athletes in the world per discipline. And they did that on purpose. Yeah, so it is interesting, like still being able to see, like elite speed climbers competing in lead and bouldering along with elite boulderers competing in lead and speed and so on and so forth.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, God, it just must be so tricky balancing all the training. And I definitely want to talk about that. So like for you, but actually, before we talk about that real quick for you, how do you do in lead and bouldering? Like, where are you ranked in that? Or where would you put yourself?
John Brosler
Um, I’d say like, if I, if I were really in shape, I would, I’ve made semifinals at our nationals in both disciplines before. And if I were really training for it, and focusing on it, I could probably consistently do that. But I’m, of course not like world class in lead climbing and bouldering.
But I’d say as far as a lot of like the speed specialist go, I do have a little bit more, I don’t want to, I don’t want to say something that’s not true. But in, I do think that I trained for lead climbing and bouldering a lot more than some of the other speed specialists in the world do. And so I think in a lot of ways, I have a bit of a leg up on that. But in the respective disciplines themselves, I’m of course not world class at all. But um, yeah, that’s basically where I’m at.
Neely Quinn
Okay, yeah. And that’s interesting to hear that, like you do take a broader approach to it than some of the other speed specialists.
John Brosler
Yeah. And that, that comes from having to basically compete at our national championships, because, of course, I’m gonna do really well in like a combined speed round, but where I really need to make up the most ground is in lead climbing and bouldering. And so I’m at a point where I’m able to sacrifice some speed training and still do well enough to hopefully get a ranking of one at a combined event. But I really need to have the ground made up at lead climbing and bouldering as well, in order for that to really show in the combined scoring.
Neely Quinn
That makes sense, yeah. Yeah, that does make sense. Because in other countries, there are people who are there are more people who are as good at speed climbing, as you are, but it doesn’t seem like there have been very many in this country. And so does that make sense?
John Brosler
Yeah, Yeah, it does. Yeah. I’ll be at the training is interesting. For sure.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, let’s talk about the training. Okay, so because this is a training podcast, after all, I want to know, specifically how you train for speed, and then we can go into the other stuff, and like the timing of all of it, but…
John Brosler
Yeah, I’d say that. training for speed as a combined athlete is very, very different than training speed as a speed specialist. And so this past year, I’ve been training it more as a combined athlete. And so I would, again, I would speed climb first, I think that’s most important so that you’re less tired in the other disciplines. And I usually will do like, a speed day, and then maybe a little bit of bouldering afterwards, and then like a speed and bouldering day, and then have — and then do like a speed workout off the wall, and then do a bunch of endurance after that. And so kind of kind of just like decreasing power days and increasing in like endurance. And if that makes sense, kind of throughout like a three day training cycle.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And then you have like, one day off, and then you do it again.
John Brosler
Yeah, essentially. And for speed climbing during what while you’re training to be a combined athlete, I’m not really doing a ton of like, off the wall training that speed specialists might do, although I am doing a little bit for sure. Mostly because that’s my specialty. But it would be less so than if I were training as like a speed specialist, I think. Because the training for speed specialist I compare really closely to training for like a track and field athlete, honestly, because it’s a lot of leg power, you don’t really need to train too much for like movement or body position because it is all on the same route. And so if you can have each individual move as dialed as possible, that obviously you have to have, your body has to have some level of like climbing instinct and movement and stuff like that. But I feel like once you’re able to consistently get the moves dialed because it really is mostly just muscle memory. Once you have that you can just start working on strength and power.
So yeah, and then a lot of the training is off the wall. You’re lifting weights. You’re doing Sprint’s just general, like track and field fitness as opposed to training on the wall for lead climbing and bouldering.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Okay, so it’s taken, you’re like, because you’ve been doing this for years, you have the muscle memory, you could do this route in your sleep, basically. And so at this point, you don’t need to do very much movement training. But I’m sure that some of the other athletes who are coming in and like just now starting to do speed, they’re probably doing a lot of that, right?
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely. So like, maybe a lead climbing or a bouldering specialist or something, just generally, someone who hasn’t really been speed climbing a ton and is just training for it because of the Olympic format. They’re training way more on the actual speed route than they are off the wall. And that’s what’s that, that’s what would be more beneficial for them. Because they really need to get the moves dialed. And —
Neely Quinn
Right.
John Brosler
Yeah, and get each move as efficient as possible. Whereas most speed specialists have done most of that already, I think. And I’m not saying that, there are speed specialists that don’t train on the wall and train like to make each move as efficient as possible, even more so than it already is for them, if that makes sense. But it’s where like the emphasis for a lead climber, or boulderer, that’s training speed would definitely be training on the wall and getting to know the route versus an emphasis for speed specialists would be maybe training off the wall and getting stronger.
Neely Quinn
Okay, so you’re somewhere in between that, it seems like.
John Brosler
Yeah, yeah, I’d say so for my own personal training for the combine that the approach I took was somewhere in between that, because I still wanted to keep up my strongest discipline, because high ranking in one discipline that you’re really good at is really beneficial, for the combined scoring. But I didn’t want to overdo it so much that I would be losing time that I otherwise would need in order to train for lead climbing or bouldering.
Neely Quinn
Okay, can we go through your three days cycle? Can you tell me like what you do on day one, day two, and day three?
John Brosler
Yeah, so I guess on day one, I — would be like a speed only day for me. And so I’ll do maybe like 10 to 12 runs on the wall after warming up really well. And on that day, I would do, maybe something like runs with a weight vest or towards the end of the session, I would do doubles on the route for fitness. And a lot of the time, I’ll do like target practice runs as well. And so I’ll try to like, I’ll try to get a specific time or like within a specific range. So I can practice my consistency and precision, like on the route as a whole. And I think that’s a great, like, mental training aspect of speed climbing because you have to be able to perform under pressure and like it the right amount, I think. And so —
Neely Quinn
You have to know like how, how hard to try and what that feels like?
John Brosler
Yeah, exactly. And that’ll depend. And that’ll change depending on whether it’s your first or second qualifier run, or whichever race you’re doing in finals or something like that. And so it’s really good to, it’s really nice tool to have in your back pocket is to be able to be in such control that you can decide on alright, I’m not going to try that hard. I’m gonna just go for consistency and get to the top or just barely make it to the next round or tell yourself okay, I’m safe. Now I can go all out on this next one, or try a little bit harder to go a little bit faster. Or, oh man, this person that I’m racing is really fast, I have to turn it up a little bit. And so you want to be able to have that control. So that’s something that I’m training on that speed only day as well.
Neely Quinn
If you were doing more speed work off the wall or work off the wall, what what kinds of things would you add into that day?
John Brosler
Into that day, I would probably do an off the wall like weights workout, like for me where I need the most improvement or is in my lower body. My legs could get stronger I think personally. And so I do things like squats and like other leg workouts or like lower body coordination things like you know those agility ladders that they’ll have like soccer like football players do drills on where they like step two feet in the box or two feet out or something like that. Drills like that can be really helpful or just like any kind of foot-eye, foot-body coordination drill that you can do. Just something like that. I think or like Sprint’s are just, again like general track and field training is like what could be really useful.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it seems like that’s what the Russian and the I, what is it is Iranian team?
John Brosler
Um, yeah, yeah.
Neely Quinn
Were kind of do like a lot of like leg stuff and power stuff.
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely.
Neely Quinn
Um, anything like, it seems like, I don’t know, squats or something like really heavy squats? Is that something that you guys ever do?
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely, definitely. I try not to do like, one rep max squats or like one rep max anything just because that scares me. I don’t want to get injured.
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
John Brosler
But I mean, any any kind of like, I guess power workout like that is super beneficial, because you need to be able to use your legs as much as possible. The technique is like your your legs are kind of the motor up the route and your hands kind of steer. So you need a strong motor, you’d say you need strong legs. And then you need the coordination throughout your entire body in order to hit everything as precise as possible.
Neely Quinn
Right, so that means like, core training, too, right?
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely, definitely core training.
Neely Quinn
Are you doing that currently?
John Brosler
Currently, a little bit not quite as much because I need other things more personally. Like I would I emphasize training my legs more so than my core, because that’s just what I need more right now. But yeah, I mean, you have to be full body strong, because you’re fully engaged the entire time when you’re on the speed route. And so core is definitely a part of that because it connects everything.
Neely Quinn
I would assume also that like plyometric work would be good, like jumping exercises. What about that?
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely. Box jumps, variations of box jumps, jump roping. Again, like agility ladder like kind of coordination, plyometric training any any kind of like, any kind of coordination, plyometric, lower body, like any variation of anything like that could be pretty useful. It is like a very, you do need like a pretty high level of just overall fitness in order to do it. And that’s where kind of the, at least in my opinion, like the track and field training philosophy kind of comes from, because a lot of it is it’s not necessarily climbing specific training, which is what like, most training would be for sport climbing or bouldering. Like you’re getting pumped or you’re doing like, the hardest moves you can or your hangboarding it’s all pretty on the wall or like climbing specific but these other workouts and exercises and drills are pretty just general overall body fitness instead.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, you literally can’t get pumped in six seconds.
John Brosler
No, you can’t. If you did get pumped in six seconds, I’d be worried.
Neely Quinn
Right.
John Brosler
If you’re pumped in six seconds if I lead climb first, but, it’s yeah, generally, like you don’t really need to train like, like for you don’t need to do like laps and get super pumped in order to train for speed. Maybe you would, maybe you do that for like an aerobic drill or something like that. But yeah, you’re not you’re not getting pumped on the speed route, hopefully.
Neely Quinn
Right.
John Brosler
Yeah
Neely Quinn
Okay. So well, at least not at your level.
John Brosler
Right, right.
Neely Quinn
Okay, so day one speed you’re doing, you’re doing runs on the route, you’re maybe using a weight vest, maybe doing doubles on the route. And then you’re doing like trying for specific times. And then you’re doing off the wall stuff, some of like a combination of some of the things we just talked about.
John Brosler
Yeah, yeah, that’s it in a nutshell.
Neely Quinn
Okay.
John Brosler
Yeah, and then day two for training for combined, I would do a little bit of speed first in the morning. And then kind of the same, kind of the same stuff as day one but less and all like on the wall because I had done the off the wall stuff the day before. And then after that I would boulder or something, just to just to train like, just general climbing movement and finger strength that like just, I would do like kind of a just general bouldering session, like on some comp boulders or on a spray wall or —
Neely Quinn
You just like like that limit bouldering sort of just having a normal session?
John Brosler
Yeah, essentially. And then, yeah, maybe I would hangboard if I felt like I needed it. But that wouldn’t be like oh, I feel like hangboarding, today, it would be like, Okay, if I need to do, if I need to be hangboarding, I have a routine that I would stick to for a few weeks.
But it kind of I kind of think of it as like just decreasing your power output each day. And so I would do mostly speed and a bunch of power on day one, and then some speed and then some bouldering as well, but which is like a little bit less powerful than speed on day two. And then on day three, it would be even less than that. That’s kind of the philosophy that I use that I thought worked pretty well.
Neely Quinn
And what is day three again,
John Brosler
Day three, well, I would do a, I guess I would do like a speed power, like weights workout in the morning. And then afterwards would be just like endurance laps. Basically, I’d try to get pumped and do some sport climbing.
Neely Quinn
Okay, so in the morning, you would go in to the weight room and just do some stuff in there for speed and power?
John Brosler
Yeah, yeah.
Neely Quinn
And then we would rest and then go back and do a bunch of endurance on routes?
John Brosler
Yeah, it would be like kind of a double session. Because again, like you’re using different energy systems. And so I wouldn’t do a weights workout after getting super pumped and doing some endurance training. But the other way around, for me, it works pretty well, because I can be like, power drained, but not necessarily, like, but not necessarily like arms full of lactic acid or, or anything like that after a weights workout. So that’s where the route climber would come in. Because I’m not trying to like get I’m not trying to push my absolute, like, if I were fresh to limit on routes on that day, I’m just trying to get the fitness in and so I don’t care if I’m on 5.13 or 5.11, if I’m getting pumped. And that’s that’s good.
Neely Quinn
Okay, that’s the point. Like, what kind of what, what would a session look like for you for endurance?
John Brosler
Um, maybe some doubles. Let’s see some up-downs. On on a rope. Maybe I would do like some circuits that were more focused on like doing a lot of moves versus like, like a power endurance circuit. So maybe like 50 moves, and then I would rest and then do something similar again. It really just depends on like, how I would feel that day, or what or like, if I could find a partner to climb with, or I try to like, keep it loosely, fluid, just so I have the option to listen to my body if I need to, and maybe even cut it out all together if I’m just totally dead. But just some form of like, getting pumped and feeling like you’re trying hard in that way —
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
John Brosler
— on day three.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I was gonna ask, alright, do you feel usually pretty drained by day three?
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely. Well, when you’re when you’re in shape, like you can, your body gets used to the training. And obviously, I wouldn’t recommend jumping straight into a training cycle like this, but and to be honest, like now that the combined format is over for me, I probably won’t really train like that again very often. But while I was doing it, my body was ready for the amount of effort I would put in each of the three days. And I would structure each day so that if I had to listen to my body and cut it short, or do something different than I could. And yeah, that’s, that’s basically it.
Neely Quinn
I mean, it makes sense, because you have to be on for two or three days at these at these events, right?
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely. I did it at the Pan American championships in 2018 in Ecuador. It was a five day event. And you would climb for all five days, essentially. Because it would be like a qualifier and then a final round, I think like, and sometimes two qualifier round or two rounds in a day or something like that. And so you’d have to be ready to either session a lot of days in a row, or like even double session if you were climbing in two disciplines and made two final rounds or something. So I was lucky because I didn’t make lead finals. So I had a rest day before the combined final, which was really, really useful. But a lot of athletes didn’t. And they ended up being five days on of like limit climbing throughout the competition.
Neely Quinn
That takes weeks to recover from.
John Brosler
It’s a lot for sure. For sure it is a lot. But generally, they’re pretty good at structuring competitions now so that that doesn’t happen. And like at the World Championships this year, even they even like structured, they like, built rest days in to the competition for each gender. And even like that I think there was even a day where nothing happened, it was just a rest day for everybody. And so they’re pretty good at managing it like that if they had to.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, it seems like they’re learning.
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely. And now and then hope the hope is in 2024, that it’s not a three discipline event. It’s a two discipline event, with lead and bouldering together, and then speed. And then speed separate, excuse me,
Neely Quinn
That’s good.
John Brosler
So these crazy long competitions with a lot of climbing, it won’t be quite as much of a problem in the future as it has been leading up to this Olympics.
Neely Quinn
So if that’s the case, and you’re gunning for the Olympics in 2024, would you just what, what would you do? Would you just focus on speed and not do the others?
John Brosler
Um, yeah, I think so. I haven’t really made that decision yet. But if I were to do it, then I think that’s the approach I would take. And I would definitely still either lead climb or boulder, at least a little bit, just so I just like so I can like mentally relax a little bit. And I’m not totally zoned in and focused on this one thing, because like, like, I have a habit of getting burned out if I do too much speed climbing. And so maybe I wouldn’t, like do any, like, super robust training for the other two disciplines. But I would make sure that I like built some climbing days like that into my training schedule. So that I do have like that mental break a little bit.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, that makes sense. Where Where do you train? Do you train at the USA climbing facility?
John Brosler
Yeah, I trained there a lot. I also trained at the front and momentum quite a bit. And occasionally, I’ll just take trips to gyms around the country, if I feel like I need a little bit of variance, or sometimes I’ll go back home to Dallas, where team Texas is, and I can work with my old coaches. Or there’s a really highly regarded speed climbing coach out in Atlanta at the Stone Summit gyms. And sometimes I’ll take a trip out there if I feel like I want to visit him and do some training for the other two disciplines as well, because they’ve really got a good setup out there. But it really just depends on where I’m at where the competitions are, and things like that.
Neely Quinn
Do you ever climb outside?
John Brosler
Yeah, not so much lately. But within within these past two years, I think I’ve had four days outside, maybe. So really not a lot at all. But back when I lived in Boulder, I would climb outside every weekend.
Neely Quinn
It’s just not been enough of a focus where you can spend the time on it recently?
John Brosler
Yeah, essentially, basically, like any outdoor day is a day that I could be spending training instead. And so generally I prioritize that. And it’s I’m not, I’m not missing it too much. I’ve definitely psyched on the training that I’m doing. So, but it is definitely nice to be able to get outside when I can. And after nationals got canceled. I was able to get outside for a day. And that was really refreshing. And now during this whole coronavirus situation, I’ve been kind of staying cooped up inside.
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
John Brosler
But it’s not — it is something that I do like to do when I when the opportunity comes.
Neely Quinn
So looking ahead for you. What are you preparing for at the moment?
John Brosler
I’m like, I guess at the moment, I’m kind of in limbo. Nationals was supposed to be last weekend. And if the whole if the whole season went according to plan, I would ideally be preparing for the World Cups right now, which normally start at the beginning of April. But because everything’s been delayed, at this point, I’m just training for whenever nationals is going to be rescheduled for. And then I think at this point, the first speed World Cup is going to be here in Salt Lake City in June. And so that’s next on my list.
Neely Quinn
The the next what do you say the speed World Cup?
John Brosler
The next speed World Cup, yeah.
Neely Quinn
Oh, there are just speed World Cups?
John Brosler
Well, they’re usually held in conjunction with another discipline. So there’s a speed and bouldering World Cup in Salt Lake City in June on the schedule.
Neely Quinn
Oh, cool.
John Brosler
So — and so I’ll probably only compete in speed. Yeah, hopefully. But I say just a speed World Cup because I’ll probably only compete in speed, but they’re just two disciplines happening in one weekend.
Neely Quinn
That’s interesting. Can you explain that real quick? How can you only compete in speed in a World Cup if it’s a combined event?
John Brosler
Well, the Olympics are combined event, but the World Cups are single discipline. And so if you’re a combined athlete, like the Olympians are going to have the option to go to any World Cup that they want of any discipline because they can, they need to prepare however they see fit competition wise. But generally, I mean, the specialists don’t have to compete in every discipline at the World Cups, because the actual combined competition isn’t until the Olympics, I guess. And so the Olympics is a combined event, but the World Cups are a single discipline. Combined athletes will maybe do both disciplines in a weekend. But they’re scored totally separately.
Neely Quinn
Okay, so people will just do it to prepare for other events if they want to otherwise they just do their own discipline?
John Brosler
Yeah, essentially, even the World Cups last season, like in preparation for all the Olympic Qualifying events, the World Cup disciplines would be happening in the same weekend, but they’d be scored separately.
Neely Quinn
Hmm. Okay. That’s cool that they allow — like that they provide that as a practice opportunity, though.
John Brosler
Yeah, definitely, definitely. And so that way, the combined athletes can still compete in both disciplines if they want to. And it’s a pretty common practice for, like if there were I mean, it’s pretty common for people to compete in both disciplines anyway, just because they’re flying halfway across the world to do this competition. So if you’re psyched, then you might as well but if you have the opportunity, then you might as well. But the people who are still psyched on the single disciplines, rather than the combined format at the Olympics still have to be able to prepare and compete, however, they’re psyched on competing.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Right. And during this time, when the gyms are closed. And during coronavirus, how are you still doing any sort of training inside? Are you just sort of chillin’?
John Brosler
Right now I’m just sort of hanging out. Not too too much. I just started to hangboard. So I’ll probably do some of that. But, uh, I’m lucky because I’ve only had to take two days off so far. And so I’m just using it as some time for my body to rest and recuperate, anyway. So it’s not, it’s not like the worst thing in the world, for me to have to take this much time off, because there will be enough time for at least I’m hoping there will be enough time for me to climb in some open gyms in order to get my fitness back. And I think the rest will be good for me.
Neely Quinn
Yeah, I mean, what if you did have to take a month off?
John Brosler
If I did have to take a month off, I’d probably figure something out. But I’d say if it got if it went much past a week, I would start to maybe take some steps and figure out what kind of training I could do inside and maybe try to get some sort of access to more training tools and things like that.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. I think that’s kind of where we’re, we’re all at right now.
John Brosler
Yeah, but yeah, everybody’s in the same boat. So if everybody has to take a month off, then everybody has to take a month off.
Neely Quinn
Yeah.
John Brosler
Hopefully, hopefully, that won’t be the case. But at this point is kind of out of our hands. So I’m just along for the ride.
Neely Quinn
Yeah. Cool. Well, that got a little bit depressing there.
John Brosler
That’s okay.
Neely Quinn
Um, but yeah, I really appreciate you talking to me about all this stuff. I think that most of my questions have been answered. And hopefully we’ve answered everybody else’s questions. But do you think there’s anything we missed?
John Brosler
Um
Neely Quinn
Like, are there other questions you get from people about speed climbing that you can think of that we didn’t talk about?
John Brosler
Um, I don’t. I don’t think so. I think I think we touched on pretty much everything. But um, yeah, yeah, I think this has been pretty thorough.
Neely Quinn
Cool. Well, again, thank you very much. And do you want to give a shout out to your sponsors or anything?
John Brosler
Um, yeah, definitely. Um, thanks so much to Perfect Descent, La Sportiva, Gnarly Nutrition. They’ve been helping me out train for these past few months leading up to Nationals. And helping me also get through this whole coronavirus self isolation quarantine situation. And it — Yeah, I’m just looking forward to being able to compete again, as I’m sure everybody else is and representing them again, and I’m glad to have their support for for where we’re at.
Neely Quinn
Great. Thanks, John. I really appreciate it and take care of yourself.
John Brosler
Yeah. Thanks. Likewise.
Neely Quinn
Thanks.
I hope you enjoyed that interview with John Brosler. Again, you can find him on Instagram @JohnBrosler. He also wrote an article for gymclimber.com, all about speed climbing. And I put a link to that in the show notes. But also, I really really liked his film called Up to Speed that was in Real Rock 13. And if you haven’t seen it, you can rent the whole Real Rock on the Real Rock website, or I think on Amazon, and I put a link to that in the show notes as well. So because it like really explains speed climbing super well, and it’s funny, and John’s in it. And it just like piqued my interest in speed climbing to begin with. So if you haven’t seen it, definitely check that out. So coming up on the podcast next week or the week after I’ll do that episode with Diana Rodgers, about meat production and the environment. So stay tuned for all that.
And remember that we always have training programs for climbers, we have our subscription programs, which will start to be phased out by the end of this year, and replaced with something new. So if you want to check those out, you can go to Trainingbeta.com/routes for the route subscription program or /bouldering for the bouldering program. And each of those gives you three workouts every week. And it goes through sort of cyclical but nonlinear phases of six weeks each for like all the things that we need to be stronger at each one of those disciplines. So you can check those out at Trainingbeta.com and we have tons of other programs for finger training or power endurance or whatever it is that you want to train. So I think that’s it for today. I really appreciate you listening all the way to the end and I’ll talk to you soon.
